User Pick of the Day (#76): Children of God (yourself) - Music

BrandonMiaow

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Children Of God by Swans
Chart: Top 30 Greatest Music Albums by yourself
Rank on User's Chart: 2
Year: 1987
Rank on BEA Overall: 1,609
Average Rating: 79/100
Chart notes (it's a lyric):
"I'll be your body when your body is broken"

Silver

Their best and one of the best of all time. The perfect point between their super no wavey, noisy era stuff and the later gothic post-punk, plus it has Gira's most intense, passionate vocals and lyrics. Fucking Beautiful Child.

Skinny
birdman_handrub.gif

It's just a bit silly, though, isn't it? "The sex in your soul will damn you to hell"? Does nobody else think they take themselves way too fucking seriously? I can appreciate what they do, but they just seem so focused on magnitude and intensity so much of the time that it comes off as bordering on satire. Or maybe I'm just not an intense enough person to get it. Like, I feel like they have no self-awareness, like they're making this big, orchestrated racket with all these silly, dark, gothic images, and yet Gira has no sense of humour about it. Like, he actually believes 100% in what he's doing, it doesn't feel tongue-in-cheek or anything, it just feels like this futile study of darkness that all too often goes way too far into the realms of ridiculousness. Or maybe I'm wrong. I haven't really read a lot about them, I've heard like five of their albums and I feel like I'm watching some super-pretentious one-man theatre show where the author/director/actor (all one guy, obviously) is trying to make all these profound points about humanity and society and what not but has just failed to take a step back and say, "well actually I might look a bit stupid doing this, maybe I can tone it down a bit because this could come off as overdone and insincere". Fuck knows, I understand it's sort of blasphemous to talk shit about Swans these days. It's not to say I don't like some of their stuff, because I do, but over the course of an album (usually a really fucking long album) it all becomes a bit too much. For example, Nick Cave seems to have this whole Tom Waits-esque theatricality about his work, and his most gothic moments don't take themselves too seriously. He's still capable of sounding really dark and sinister and loud, but he seems to know when to rein it in. I know this whole critique has been contradictory. I don't really know what I want from a Swans record, if I'm being honest. But yeah, this one isn't for me unfortunately.
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Silver

Swans do take themselves a bit seriously a times, but I don't think Gira had no awareness of what his stuff came across as. When I hear the whole sex in your soul will damn you to hell thing, I think there certainly is a bit of irony there, with the whole chanting ritualistic feel to it. Of course, when CoG was made Gira had a pretty negative worldview still, so he obviously was trying to evoke dark imagery and despair and all that, but more than having a total belief in what he was saying I think it was more of a want to explore different themes. I've also never really put lyricism at the forefront of what I like about Swans, it all just builds to the atmosphere of the album, which is what I think Swans always had as their priority. It's overblown and theatrical at times, but at its very least I think it all flows really well together, and is really cohesive as an experience. Plus, there are contrasting moments that are really pretty and sonically pleasing, it's not just a storm of dark cacophony and chanting the entire way through. Also, I would like to point out that Gira has sole songwriting credit for only a single song on the album, and it was collaborative and put together by several people. Obviously Gira was the leader, but it's not as if he's throwing out his shit for world to see with no feedback.

If asked does Gira have a sense of humor about him, I'd say in these days he does but I'm not so sure about this period. I certainly think he has a sense of irony here, but this was still in the days of noise and oppressive sounds, so maybe I'm completely misinterpreting it. I actually don't really know what point I'm trying to make here, but I guess overall I'd say they do sometimes take themselves too seriously, but not as much as Faust.

yourself

SilverWalrus wrote:

but not as much as Faust.

haha, the booklet/liner-notes for my Faust iv cd talks about them as being the one Krautrock band that kept a sense of humour Laughing

I can get (I think) what lethal is saying about overbearing humourless gothic theatricality and darkness, but for me its partially the point, and partially done so damn well it doesn't bother me (listen to the way he sings THIIIISSS IS MYYY SACRRRIFIICCE on Beautiful Child, you can just hear conflict and anger and desperation, its so great). From what I've read, Gira was consciously trying to borrow from theatrical televangelists, and also capture something genuine about religion. I don't think that could be as emotionally effective with some self aware distance from the material. Of course those things mix with the over the top sex/power/abuse early swans themes, but I enjoy those too so...

Beyond that Mark Prindle probably (in his own over the top way) explains the appeal better than I could:

...they're SMART AS SHIT. Overdramatic? Maybe, maybe not. Humorless? Oh hell yes. Definitely. But the sound they create - the louder you play it, the more you just want to reach your hands to sky and cry out for something to believe in. Some reason to go on."

Also the arrangments, songwriting, vocal performances, everything, its all at a career high for Swans. I do think they were working with their limitations: use the ritualistic repetition, spooky folk and primal noise making to very precise effect, no overextending themselves like on certain albums (cough To be kind cough The Seer)

19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

Skinny wrote:

Does nobody else think they take themselves way too fucking seriously? I can appreciate what they do, but they just seem so focused on magnitude and intensity so much of the time that it comes off as bordering on satire.

Can't speak for Children of God, as I only heard it once (I think?), but that has been pretty much my main problem with Swans so far. At least on The Seer. I still like em though... Just can never take them as seriously as they take themselves.

Norman Bates

Gender: Male
Age: 51
Location: Paris, France

Skinny wrote:

It's just a bit silly, though, isn't it? "The sex in your soul will damn you to hell"? Does nobody else think they take themselves way too fucking seriously?

That's what I liked about The Seer: I thought it was hilarious, pushing precisely what they're being criticized for to the utmost limit of ridicule ("LU-NA-CY! LU-NA-CY! LU-NA-CY!" hahaha), it's the pompous self-derision that makes it a great album.

Otherwise I'll agree on most of their discography.

Skinny
birdman_handrub.gif

yourself wrote:

I can get (I think) what lethal is saying

I'm glad somebody at least thinks they did. I'm not even sure what I was saying.

yourself wrote:

for me its partially the point

I understand that it's kind of the point (I think), but it just doesn't appeal to me. One man's trash yadda yadda yadda.

yourself wrote:

I don't think that could be as emotionally effective with some self aware distance from the material.

Emotional resonance is the most subjective aspect in music, and perhaps I'm just a bit too cynical to really get fully absorbed into what Swans are trying to do, but the overwrought and overbearing nature of it all actually means that I end up having little to no emotional attachment to their music.

Whatever, I'm glad Swans exist. They're a band I appreciate, but struggle to like. But they have their niche(s) and other people do like their music, and they're one of those bands who I wish I could get into. It just doesn't do anything for me, most of the time anyway.
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yourself

Skinny wrote:

Emotional resonance is the most subjective aspect in music, and perhaps I'm just a bit too cynical to really get fully absorbed into what Swans are trying to do, but the overwrought and overbearing nature of it all actually means that I end up having little to no emotional attachment to their music.

Whatever, I'm glad Swans exist. They're a band I appreciate, but struggle to like. But they have their niche(s) and other people do like their music, and they're one of those bands who I wish I could get into. It just doesn't do anything for me, most of the time anyway.

Yeah, all fair and understandable stuff. I just wanted to respond and explain my view/opinion in a hopefully comprehensible way. I do think the obsessive praise that seems to have followed Swans since The Seer came out can even be a bit too much for me. They have their ups and downs in quality and less convincing moments- Children of God convinces me in terms of songwriting/performance ect., and its a sound/mood I'm drawn to so... Smile

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

yourself wrote:

I do think the obsessive praise that seems to have followed Swans since The Seer came out can even be a bit too much for me.

It's definitely gotten out of control, but that seems to be how things always work. A band gets put on a pedestal so high that it's hard to take it seriously.

Children of God is a masterpiece. I'm pretty hit and miss with other Swans records. I think most everything they've done is worth listening to, but not God-like.
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