I don't think there is as much a distinction between economic migrant and refugee as people pretend, it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of people who reach western europe are both of these things. Clearly Syria has quickly become a place where it's impossible for people to see their futures which is why literally millions of people are leaving, but if you're leaving your whole life behind and travelling hundreds of miles then it's hard to blame people for having the idea of not stopping before western europe. If I had to flee europe to north america then I wouldn't get off the boat at Mexico
The situation is hardly sustainable though, for Europe or for Syria's immediate neighbours who have taken in far far more than have reached europe which people seem to forget. People can't pretend that it's nothing for these destination countries to accommodate collectively millions of people so it can't go on forever.
The solution is obviously making life in Syria more attractive to those currently fleeing ie ending the civil war, but that's basically a dream at this point the situation is so fucked. It's been a pretty terrible exercise in foreign policy from the west since the very start of the arab spring and most people are now just secretly wishing none of it ever happened and wouldn't we be better off with Mubarak, Gaddafi, Assad still running things
Apart from the long term target of ending the civil war I don't know how Europe immediately and in the next few years copes with this crisis. Accommodate as many of those arriving as possible but give buckets of aid to support regional refugee camps to try and deter them coming I suppose
Yeah can't disagree with bolded text. Most people (in Slovenia anyway) seem annoyed that people arriving seem to be mostly younger men (including plenty non-Syrians, or at least with no such proof), but on the other hand, you can say that it is on them to try and find a better life for all of their families.
I really can't see a good option out of this for Europe. The more people that are accepted in, the more you thereby "invite" and the influx just doesn't stop. If there could be a way to pressure the rich Arab states to help more than they do, that could maybe help stabilize the situation a bit, but alas...
Anyway as of today Hungary has effectively closed their borders - they say it is to deter the illegals entering the country, but from what I've heard, all of those who actually applied for the asylum got rejected anyway. So it's in a way them saying that they don't want anything to do with this. Can't see this leading to anything good, esp. with more coming in from the south. I'm now watching the live stream from the HUN-SRB border, they got their own demonstration going on, with megaphones and shit. Some were also taken with buses towards Croatian border, if they will want to try to go into Croatia "legally". I'm also not sure how much Croatians will want that to happen. If they will pass the border illegally, then they better take care not to pass through any of the old minefields from the Yugoslav wars!
Slovenia still busy dealing with the group of 14 Syrians (alleged) we got from Hungary a few days ago. Hungary doesn't want them back, they don't want the asylum in Slovenia.
yeah except just like other technologies that generally improve the condition of life on earth (like vaccines), we will be sure to allow intellectual property of westerners trump the needs of the developing world. i wouldn't put so much faith in the goodwill of the agencies that actually fund all that science. i agree that developing novel solutions to industrialization and seeing countries wholesale adopt them would be a step in the right direction.
There's a reason I called it a dream world and not my view of the future, unfortunately ... honestly I think our best shot would be someone like Musk making that his goal (or Gates or Carter or Buffet). When someone with a lot of money makes something their "cause", all of a sudden the world pays attention, they already can get the media attention because they have money, and sometimes even can get political help instituting stuff cuz money. That's still probably honestly too much faith to put into people, but we'll see. _________________
our best shot would be someone like Musk making that his goal
it seems extremely dangerous to put our faith in singular individuals to be "saviors of humanity." it's baffling to me the cognitive dissonance of trusting Google or Musk or some other Silicon Valley institution to run the world better than a government. the former are seen as "dynamic" and "adaptive," while the latter is seen as "restrictive." planned economies? Authoritarianism! single individuals effectively running the show? Innovation! seems much more restrictive and creepy to have mega-corporations with no accountability just run everything.
it seems extremely dangerous to put our faith in singular individuals to be "saviors of humanity." it's baffling to me the cognitive dissonance of trusting Google or Musk or some other Silicon Valley institution to run the world better than a government. the former are seen as "dynamic" and "adaptive," while the latter is seen as "restrictive." planned economies? Authoritarianism! single individuals effectively running the show? Innovation! seems much more restrictive and creepy to have mega-corporations with no accountability just run everything.
To me it's less that even and more that in our current structure, the US government isn't going to do anything. It's hard enough to get anything through congress, let alone trying to say "let's spend money that won't directly help any of us til a lot of years down the line probably". There's enough problem trying to get money to research renewables, but to research how to institute them in other countries? I have little to no hope of the government really going for that. I don't think Musk could run the world better than a government, but the guy's got the cash and doesn't have to worry about any checks and balances, just himself.
Musk isn't maybe even the best example, when you look at something like Carter fighting the Guinea Worm or Bill Gates and mosquitoes, it can happen where people use their fame, money, and power for good. I can't see Bill Clinton taking on renewables as his post-presidency goal with Hilary running and all, and neither Bush is exactly going to get on that. Maybe Al Gore could do something, but that's just ... yeah ... so someone like Musk or the more faceless billionaires out there doing something good would be better in our current political climate. Get a well functioning, progressive enough to accomplish this sort of thing government together and I'm with you. _________________
Update:
Croatia not able to deal with the wave of refugees now going through their eastern border with Serbia, their system basically collapses, they can't register them anymore or provide for water and food. There was even a stampedo when refugees didn't want to wait in the lines anymore, but no serious injuries from what I know. Those that are settled in asylum centers want to continue, some do - but 150 people on a train towards Ljubljana/Austria/Munich are stopped on the Slovenian border and will now be returned.
Croatia wants the refugees to continue on to Slovenia.
Slovenia wants to obey the EU Schengen rules.
Croatia is fucked, decides to close the Serbian border.
Hungary doesn't give a fuck and will build more fence.
Refugees want to go further northwest by all means necessary. Don't want to register or ask for asylum in these "poor countries".
I think our police can't hold a huge mass of people away though, so they'll get in eventually.
"Croatia’s prime minister sent a stark message to Hungary in an interview this morning, saying his country is prepared to continue forcing its neighbour to accept more refugees by sending them to the border. Zoran Milanovic flatly told news reporters at a visit to the border on Saturday “We have in some way compelled them to accept the refugees by sending them [to the Hungarian border] and we’ll keep on doing it.” He had acknowledged the move would be in direct opposition to the wishes of Hungary"
Croatia doesn't give a fuck.
Also on our border there's a bunch of our + croatian activists, and our police decided to pepper spray the crowd a little bit, but we're letting them in slowly.
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