Best Rock Albums: Genre Lists - Music Diaries

TiggaTrigga

Yeah, it's nice to see more 7.5 rankings. Maybe someday there will be another rap album with an 8 from Scaruffi.

How would you describe Exmilitary, or Friendly As a Hand Grenade?

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Yeah, it's nice to see more 7.5 rankings. Maybe someday there will be another rap album with an 8 from Scaruffi.

How would you describe Exmilitary, or Friendly As a Hand Grenade?

Yes, I'm sure there will be other 8s even if few and far between. Some years ago, for a short time, I thought To Pimp a Butterfly and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy were both 8s. Even recently I considered the possibility of upgrading College Dropout to 7.8 (8s = 7.8-8.2) for a listen or two and this is still not out of the question (though maintaining 7.5/7.6 is more likely). I think the biggest difficulty Hip Hop faces in elevating past an 8 may be in escaping the need to represent pop culture and finding a more profound medium between "maximalist" and "personal/meaningful". There are certainly artists like Cloudead and others that don't care about representing pop culture. And lots of hip hop can conjure up a spectacle of maximalism and sick beats (etc) but only a certain percentage remain truly meaningful and impactful down the road after the novelty or initial impression wears off. A truly original vocalist would be a major plus (not just rhyme schemes or flow/rhythm, but the character of the vocalist/vocals taking on a lot more expressive capacity; these exist, just few and far between). Pop Group's Y, though not the same genre, shares similarities of how a hip hop 9 might occur, and is a very good analogy for those points combining in a similar way that a hip hop artist may approach it. This balance isn't necessarily the only possible route to a hip hop 8.5-9, probably the most likely though. The implementation of experimental or free jazz (again not dissimilar to Pop Group, but should be creative in its own right) is probably a crucial path. There are hip hop albums (on my lists and I'm sure others) that feature any of these elements, but I'm not sure if any have all of them in one (again, like Pop Group's Y, as an analogy).

Music, as a general view, is getting more maximalist, more a conflation of varied genres, tones, etc. However the same artists are not necessarily utilizing these skills to express something more profound, powerful, meaningful or personal to them past the initial impact or show or spectacle or novelty of said conflation of genres, tones, etc. There are exceptions like Julia Holter of course, who is quite original, and creating visionary and personal sound worlds that (for Aviary especially) can be quite maximalist, but such artists are few and far between. There are those like Clarence Clarity that are immensely talented but ultimately has not truly surpassed this limitation consistently across an album. Similar phenomena in cinema where directors, editors, cinematographers, have a million possibilities at their digital fingertips, but practically every blockbuster action film is an unrelenting maximalist rush of shots, few of which serve a purpose or meaning past the point of that superficial, perhaps momentarily exciting, effect. A filmmaker like Peckinpah demonstrates the difference. Painting has become far more novelty or the effort to produce a single startling effect (often one dimensional or so open to interpretation that the interpretation is almost meaningless) than profound and emotional images that withstand time and analysis and are worth revisiting again and again, that reveal something about the artist, life, oneself, etc.

Sorry - very little time for misc descriptions/analysis of albums at the moment, especially those I'm not listening to that week (that's kind of a "side" reason for my Top 10+ of the Week, btw, is to show what I'm focused on). I will get around to Rap at some point and maybe I'll revisit those. But it is challenging to say much that's worthwhile about a work, especially those I haven't revisited very recently, when I'm listening to probably 1000 other albums per year, along with simultaneous or alternating periods where I'm viewing or analyzing or revisiting/re-analyzing hundreds of paintings or 100+ films over a 12 month span (etc). That's a lot to have one's mind on at any given time, so it can be extra difficult to say something about a work I am not listening to or haven't in quite some time.

My descriptions/analysis are probably most useful when I can say something a little bit different or the same thing but from a different angle, as Scaruffi (then if one has read Scaruffi's but doesn't quite 'get' the album, it might be helpful to add mine to that; instead of just repeating what he has already said). Or, especially, when I can help hone in on what one should or needs to recognize in the work in order to "unlock" the most key element or elements of it; that if one didn't realize it before, it will tend to change the listening or viewing experience if recognized now. Or, in some cases, a mostly new or different take on one we don't agree on so much or as much. I doubt I could add much to what he has already said for either of those two though -- as he covers what's essential for both and I can't think of another way to put it, at least for any point that is crucial to one's assimilation of the important elements of those albums. Maybe I could say something about Tackhead at some point, as his review is pretty short, but I doubt I could add anything worthwhile to Exmilitary.

Currently I am revisiting several Scaruffi 8.5s, 9s and a number of high rated albums on my list that didn't seem as stable in terms of rating/quality the last time I listened (seemed like they could move up or down more easily than usual). Another purpose of this, besides various re-rates, is that I'm reminding myself of the qualitative impact of the various ratings, while and before I revisit albums I haven't rated yet and take on new ones (7s, 7.5s, and probably some lower ratings, that are new to me).
_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

AfterHours wrote:

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Yeah, it's nice to see more 7.5 rankings. Maybe someday there will be another rap album with an 8 from Scaruffi.

How would you describe Exmilitary, or Friendly As a Hand Grenade?

Yes, I'm sure there will be other 8s even if few and far between. Some years ago, for a short time, I thought To Pimp a Butterfly and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy were both 8s. Even recently I considered the possibility of upgrading College Dropout to 7.8 (8s = 7.8-8.2) for a listen or two and this is still not out of the question (though maintaining 7.5/7.6 is more likely). I think the biggest difficulty Hip Hop faces in elevating past an 8 may be in escaping the need to represent pop culture and finding a more profound medium between "maximalist" and "personal/meaningful". There are certainly artists like Cloudead and others that don't care about representing pop culture. And lots of hip hop can conjure up a spectacle of maximalism and sick beats (etc) but only a certain percentage remain truly meaningful and impactful down the road after the novelty or initial impression wears off. A truly original vocalist would be a major plus (not just rhyme schemes or flow/rhythm, but the character of the vocalist/vocals taking on a lot more expressive capacity; these exist, just few and far between). Pop Group's Y, though not the same genre, shares similarities of how a hip hop 9 might occur, and is a very good analogy for those points combining in a similar way that a hip hop artist may approach it. This balance isn't necessarily the only possible route to a hip hop 8.5-9, probably the most likely though. The implementation of experimental or free jazz (again not dissimilar to Pop Group, but should be creative in its own right) is probably a crucial path. There are hip hop albums (on my lists and I'm sure others) that feature any of these elements, but I'm not sure if any have all of them in one (again, like Pop Group's Y, as an analogy).

For possible hip hop 8/10s: possibly Public Enemy's own Fear of a Black Planet? TPAB, MBDTF, and TCD are still on the table probably, especially MBDTF. Personally think you're underrating Paul's Boutique, Madvillainy, and Clouddead as well here.

What do you think of Freestyle Fellowship's Innercity Griots, Wu Tang Clan's debut, J Dilla's Donuts, and Dalek's albums apart from the two included on the list? Also, for something that combines rap and free jazz: Steve Lehman's Selebeyone is very interesting. And how about instrumental hip hop? Endtroducing is definitely 8+ imo.

TiggaTrigga

@AferHours: Completely understandable! You've got your own priorities of what music to focus on at the moment, and I don't wanna unintentionally shift you to focusing on something else. I just enjoy reading your and the others' thoughts on albums.

@Facetious: I agree about MBDTF, could definitely be an 8, though I still don't get the purpose of the outro song.[/quote]

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Facetious wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

TiggaTrigga wrote:

Yeah, it's nice to see more 7.5 rankings. Maybe someday there will be another rap album with an 8 from Scaruffi.

How would you describe Exmilitary, or Friendly As a Hand Grenade?

Yes, I'm sure there will be other 8s even if few and far between. Some years ago, for a short time, I thought To Pimp a Butterfly and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy were both 8s. Even recently I considered the possibility of upgrading College Dropout to 7.8 (8s = 7.8-8.2) for a listen or two and this is still not out of the question (though maintaining 7.5/7.6 is more likely). I think the biggest difficulty Hip Hop faces in elevating past an 8 may be in escaping the need to represent pop culture and finding a more profound medium between "maximalist" and "personal/meaningful". There are certainly artists like Cloudead and others that don't care about representing pop culture. And lots of hip hop can conjure up a spectacle of maximalism and sick beats (etc) but only a certain percentage remain truly meaningful and impactful down the road after the novelty or initial impression wears off. A truly original vocalist would be a major plus (not just rhyme schemes or flow/rhythm, but the character of the vocalist/vocals taking on a lot more expressive capacity; these exist, just few and far between). Pop Group's Y, though not the same genre, shares similarities of how a hip hop 9 might occur, and is a very good analogy for those points combining in a similar way that a hip hop artist may approach it. This balance isn't necessarily the only possible route to a hip hop 8.5-9, probably the most likely though. The implementation of experimental or free jazz (again not dissimilar to Pop Group, but should be creative in its own right) is probably a crucial path. There are hip hop albums (on my lists and I'm sure others) that feature any of these elements, but I'm not sure if any have all of them in one (again, like Pop Group's Y, as an analogy).

For possible hip hop 8/10s: possibly Public Enemy's own Fear of a Black Planet? TPAB, MBDTF, and TCD are still on the table probably, especially MBDTF. Personally think you're underrating Paul's Boutique, Madvillainy, and Clouddead as well here.

What do you think of Freestyle Fellowship's Innercity Griots, Wu Tang Clan's debut, J Dilla's Donuts, and Dalek's albums apart from the two included on the list? Also, for something that combines rap and free jazz: Steve Lehman's Selebeyone is very interesting. And how about instrumental hip hop? Endtroducing is definitely 8+ imo.

Yes, to College Dropout - highest chance among these -- though the longest Ive thought it had the legs for 7.8/10 was 2 listens in a row. MBDTF has a greater sense of import and 'major statement' but Im not quite sure that makes it better; it seemed like an 8/10 for some early listens but has not since even though in my mind I always think it might -- it has (slightly) diminishing returns (relative to 8/10) and seems pretty solidified at 7.5 or maybe a 'high' 7.4. CD has a looseness/spontaneity, vibrance and soulfulness in the instrumentation and collaboration of vocals throughout that seems to lend a little better to repeat listens and for which West is especially brilliant at.

Fear of a Black Planet has a shot (more likely 7.3-7.7 if an upgrade).

7.3+ not completely out of the question for those others but more often than not it may come down to an underestimation of 7.0-7.2 which is increasingly on the verge of 'historically extraordinary' but just falls short upon scrutiny or revisitations or lacks something special enough to elevate or hold it there. PB especially always seems a little better to me in my mind and then falls a little bit short on revisits. But I actually had it in the 7.3s and maybe even 7.8+ years back, including "post-Scaruffi" (after 2005), so there's always a chance, but I havent thought of it as such for at least the last 5-10 revisits.

Thanks - havent checked out Innercity Griots nor Lehman.

Wu Tang debut perhaps 7, maybe a shot at 7.3+. Donuts probably 6.5 or 7. The unrated 7 or 7+ Daleks probably all match Scaruffi's ratings (big surprise) though they have among the best shots at upgrades as their originality makes them tougher to be sure of and extra plausible to change my mind and thats the main reason I havent decided and added them yet.
_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings