Sleeping giants/friends are now awake.CHINA + RUSSIA +IRAN - Politics & Religion

bcaie16

Gender: Male
Location: Toronto

RFNAPLES wrote:

Would all Canadians be as willing to abandon their nation?

Oh, in no way shape or form did I imply that I would be willing to "abandon my nation". I merely said that if a war were to erupt, it would be more advantageous to be on the side of the Chinese. I am not about to denounce my country and move to China, I am only saying that they are a formidable world power.

Bork
Executive Hillbilly

Location: Vinson Mountain, GA

GARY wrote:

What exactly are you talking about Bork :shock:

That doesn't even make any sense. I'm not being a prick or pompas or anything. But clearly you have a limited understanding of the Bible.

WE ARE THE GENERATION THAT WILL SEE ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE.

If you had eyes to see and ears to hear you would see that THESE ARE THE DAYS JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT.

ISRAEL WASN'T A NATION FOR 1,580 years. These prophesies could not take place until ISRAEL WAS ONCE AGAIN A NATION. That happened in 1948. Israel is the fig tree mentioned in the Bible. The whole world is now against this tiny little sliver of land in the middle east.

Don't you find that just a little bit strange Bork?

But it makes sense when you know that the Jews are God's chosen people. Like it or not that is what the God of the Bible says.

You have proven NOTHING.

To start with the ending remark, the difference is that I am not the one trying to make people believe in fairy tales. Those who claim that the bible is the truth and that unless you are a christian you are immoral are the ones that should offer proof. They have so far, about 2000 years and counting, not been able to show anything that even resembles proof.

Continuing on with the opening remark, that is what I was hinting at when I used the words "heavy putting of other meanings into words". Noone can honestly claim that it is clear that we are the generation that will see all these things take place. Noone can honestly claim that it is clear that the state of Israel is the fig tree. That is made up afterwards to make the words fit into whatever you are trying to preach.

I find it funny how you include the part about the Jews being god's chosen people though. I have always wondered why non-Jews even try to live according to the bible when it clearly states that (the bible is pretty clear about that point actually). Unless you are born by a Jewish mother the stuff about heaven don't apply anyway.

Fourthly, the whole world is not against Israel. The whole muslim world is. Which is not so strange for a couple of reasons. First of all both jews and muslims (as well as christians) have an exclusive religion. If one is right, the other two must be wrong. As most of the states in the area are highly religious it is quite natural that leads to tension. Second, establishing the state of Israel on land that was occupied by other people is bound to lead to problems. Sure, one can question how the people living there in 1947 came in possession of the land, but you can trace the same thing back through infinity and show how nobody is entitled to a certain piece of land. The problem is that people who were born and raised in an area were all of a sudden thrown out because it was decided that some other people were going to live there from now on. It's like the UN all of a sudden would decide that the state of Texas should belong to Mexico. It was not a very clever move.

And finally. Feel free to question my knowledge about the bible and religion. I don't claim to be an expert but I am pretty certain I know more about the bible than the average person, whether religious or not. I have read the whole thing from cover to cover and I have frequently returned to select passages of it as I find it both interesting reading (some of it is excellent prose, some of it has very entertaining stories), and have also for a long time been wondering what exactly it is about religion that makes otherwise intelligent people believe in something that is so clearly made up.

Bork
Executive Hillbilly

Location: Vinson Mountain, GA

GARY wrote:

Are you trying to tell me that the US can't tell that a mexican who can't speak English (American) is not a citizen but a Chinese person can tell if someone is from N. Korea.

No. I am trying to tell you that just as any reasonably intelligent US citizen knows that it is very likely that a Mexican looking person who can't speak English is not a citizen, so does any reasonably intelligent Chinese citizen know that a North Korean looking person who can't speak Chinese likely is not a citizen there.

Do you seriously believe that all Asians look like just "Asians" to Asian people? And do you seriously believe that illegal immigrants from North Korea to China generally speak any of the Chinese languages?

bcaie16

Gender: Male
Location: Toronto

I think in the discussion of China, biblical prophesies are irrelevant. I agree that no one can say with even the remotest degree of accuracy that this generation will experience the end of humanity, and referring to a prophecy from the bible, a book that hardly withstands modern scientific scrutinization, in order to prove this point, will benefit nobody.

On the topic of immigration, China is most definitely not as open as countries such as the US; in fact, no immigration is legal at all. Only extended periods of visitation are permitted for work purposes. The government is ruthless, often tactless, but perhaps this is the cause of their assent to the formidable nation they are.

Superpower or not, in the end, it is up to the Chinese government to responsibly manage the power they have bestowed upon themselves. This is true for any other powerful nation. The US has the power to end the world if they so choose, but that is not going to happen. The final question is, is the communist regime as trustworthy as western (using the term loosely) democracy. I think most will agree that it isn't, but just how untrustworthy is it?

GARY

Bork wrote:

GARY wrote:

Are you trying to tell me that the US can't tell that a mexican who can't speak English (American) is not a citizen but a Chinese person can tell if someone is from N. Korea.

No. I am trying to tell you that just as any reasonably intelligent US citizen knows that it is very likely that a Mexican looking person who can't speak English is not a citizen, so does any reasonably intelligent Chinese citizen know that a North Korean looking person who can't speak Chinese likely is not a citizen there.

Do you seriously believe that all Asians look like just "Asians" to Asian people? And do you seriously believe that illegal immigrants from North Korea to China generally speak any of the Chinese languages?

No of course not Bork. What I was initially saying was the people comming into China blend in as far as adopting the ways of the Chinese. Unlike the muslims in London or the Mexicans in southern Texas for example. I made it clear when I started this post that I'm not trying to convert anyone. I only aske people to CONSIDER THE PROPHESIES WITHIN THE BIBLE.

I NEVER called ANYONE immoral Bork. I'm not judging peoples morals. I do not have any right in doing so. We have been down this road before Bork and please let's not take another trip down it.

The topic that I wish to discuss on this thread is the fact that CHINA is becoming THE world superpower and what are the implications of this and what might the ramifications of same spell for the west. In particular the U.S. which owe's China over $1,000,000,000,000.00 yet we KEEP SPENDING LIKE A DRUNKIN SAILOR.

I'm not trying to preach. I'm trying to retain the little freedom and personal liberties that I have left in America.

China is going to march upon many lands Bork. That is my topic. Like I've stated on most of my other threads. This is not the bash Gary and get off topic thread.

This is a thread about CHINA and it's MILITARY for the most part IMO. I don't really give a rat's ass who is inside the tank with a star on it Bork when it is coming. It doesn't matter if they are Laotion, Vietnamese, black, green purple, Catholic, protestant.

When China makes it's move I'm going to fight whomever it is in that Chinese tank TO THE DEATH.
_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

Last edited by GARY on 04/11/2011 03:06; edited 2 times in total

Bork
Executive Hillbilly

Location: Vinson Mountain, GA

bcaie16 wrote:

I think in the discussion of China, biblical prophesies are irrelevant. I agree that no one can say with even the remotest degree of accuracy that this generation will experience the end of humanity, and referring to a prophecy from the bible, a book that hardly withstands modern scientific scrutinization, in order to prove this point, will benefit nobody.

On the topic of immigration, China is most definitely not as open as countries such as the US; in fact, no immigration is legal at all. Only extended periods of visitation are permitted for work purposes. The government is ruthless, often tactless, but perhaps this is the cause of their assent to the formidable nation they are.

Superpower or not, in the end, it is up to the Chinese government to responsibly manage the power they have bestowed upon themselves. This is true for any other powerful nation. The US has the power to end the world if they so choose, but that is not going to happen. The final question is, is the communist regime as trustworthy as western (using the term loosely) democracy. I think most will agree that it isn't, but just how untrustworthy is it?

Needless to say I agree with your first paragraph. Moving on though I do think you are putting a cultural point of view on things. I am not saying that it is wrong to do that, but it is a case of looking out for yourself and with that in mind you can't objectively object to other nations doing the same. From our Western point of view we think of our ability to end the world as a security measure and that we can and should be trusted to have those kind of weapons. Any nation not in our sphere should not be allowed to possess weapons of mass destruction as they can't be trusted not to use it on a whim and obliterate us. Please stay away from silly examples here, I obviously believe that Libya, Iran, and Somalia are even from an objective point of view less trustworthy, but when we are talking about China I dare say that the Chinese sphere finds our possession of these weapons just as frightening as we find their.

GARY

Bork wrote:

bcaie16 wrote:

I think in the discussion of China, biblical prophesies are irrelevant. I agree that no one can say with even the remotest degree of accuracy that this generation will experience the end of humanity, and referring to a prophecy from the bible, a book that hardly withstands modern scientific scrutinization, in order to prove this point, will benefit nobody.

On the topic of immigration, China is most definitely not as open as countries such as the US; in fact, no immigration is legal at all. Only extended periods of visitation are permitted for work purposes. The government is ruthless, often tactless, but perhaps this is the cause of their assent to the formidable nation they are.

Superpower or not, in the end, it is up to the Chinese government to responsibly manage the power they have bestowed upon themselves. This is true for any other powerful nation. The US has the power to end the world if they so choose, but that is not going to happen. The final question is, is the communist regime as trustworthy as western (using the term loosely) democracy. I think most will agree that it isn't, but just how untrustworthy is it?

Needless to say I agree with your first paragraph. Moving on though I do think you are putting a cultural point of view on things. I am not saying that it is wrong to do that, but it is a case of looking out for yourself and with that in mind you can't objectively object to other nations doing the same. From our Western point of view we think of our ability to end the world as a security measure and that we can and should be trusted to have those kind of weapons. Any nation not in our sphere should not be allowed to possess weapons of mass destruction as they can't be trusted not to use it on a whim and obliterate us. Please stay away from silly examples here, I obviously believe that Libya, Iran, and Somalia are even from an objective point of view less trustworthy, but when we are talking about China I dare say that the Chinese sphere finds our possession of these weapons just as frightening as we find their.

Libya, Iran, and Somalia are not communist. I don't believe that China is scared of america anymore. If anything they are disgusted with America. The U.S. can't even find 1 single man with all it's "intelligence" who is accused of being behind 9-11.

The U.S. has been in Afghanistan for 10 years and STILL there is no end in site. The U.S. is $14,300,000,000,000.00 IN DEBT. It can't even pay it's own bills.

Now why on earth would China be "frightened" by the U.S. Shocked

If anything they are Laughing

_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

Bork
Executive Hillbilly

Location: Vinson Mountain, GA

Going back to the main subject, without venturing off into biblical prophesies or the sport called Gary bashing (which basically is about questioning whether Gary's facts are indeed facts. OOPS! Did it again. OK, no more now. Promise), I too think that from a Western point of view China could and should be considered as a threat. The vast number of people living in that nation will eventually make them immensely powerful if they manage to keep their shit somewhat together.

I do not think that the Chinese will simply overrun the rest of the world and keep marching on like there is no tomorrow. Much of their power in modern day has been built on cheap labor combined with a strong work ethic. That has allowed China to become immensely competitive at manufacturing all the little pieces of junk (and quite a few useful things too at that) that people all over the world like to fill their houses with. That competitive edge has of late been complemented with an ability to actually come up with ideas of their own and lead the invention and development stages of manufacturing, as opposed to just copying stuff. The stronger the new addition gets, however, the more the original competitive edge is going to disappear. Factories no longer move production to China because it is so ridiculously cheap, in fact, the company I work for has of late been bringing production out of China to Sweden (traditionally one of the most expensive countries for industrial manufacturing). I believe what we are going to see over the coming years is that China will not take control of manufacturing while at the same time being able to hold on to the actual production, but rather that China as a cheap production country will disappear. If the government manages to keep a population that is rapidly becoming better educated in check I believe we will see development similar to what has happened in Western countries (keeping the population in check does not imply military means or oppression, but rather changing a lot of the ways the country is being run). If the country does not manage to go down that relatively stable and peaceful route of Western democracy but instead takes after the imperialistic ways of the West (today almost exclusively clinged to by the US), we will have problems. Big ones at that.

Bork
Executive Hillbilly

Location: Vinson Mountain, GA

GARY wrote:

Libya, Iran, and Somalia are not communist. I don't believe that China is scared of america anymore. If anything they are disgusted with America. The U.S. can't even find 1 single man with all it's "intelligence" who is accused of being behind 9-11.

The U.S. has been in Afghanistan for 10 years and STILL there is no end in site. The U.S. is $14,300,000,000,000.00 IN DEBT. It can't even pay it's own bills.

Now why on earth would China be "frightened" by the U.S. :shock:

If anything they are :lol:

Exactly FOR those reasons. If a country owes you a ridiculous amount of money and has no means to pay it back, but at the same time has a big red button they can press to wipe you off the face of earth, I think there is reason to be worried about how that country will behave.

purple

haven't even read what's been posted past the first one yet, but my thoughts anyways:

yeah, China's a superpower and may rise (if they haven't already to the most powerful in the world) but why does it matter? Does America really have to be #1? Is it really difficult for other Americans to imagine a prosperous America that isn't considered #1? ('cause we really know we always will be, am I right 8) )