Featuring.. In Song Titles - Suggestions - Forums : Best Ever Albums

Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh

Gender: Male
Location: Washington

lethalnezzle wrote:

I was talking more in terms of the fact that rock music is a genre that is mainly made by white people, and seen as a genre that is mainly white. The fact that there are occasionally black rock musicians does not stop this from being true. Hip-hop music is a genre mainly made by black people, and is seen as a genre that is mainly black. The fact Eminem raps doesn't stop that from being true either. Rock is an overwhelmingly white genre; hip-hop is an overwhelmingly black genre. A stubborn refusal to even attempt to cater to hip-hop fans strikes me as being slightly, if almost certainly subconsciously, racist. It may not be remotely racist, but that's how it appears to me.

Fair enough.
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ShaneSpear
Thread Killah

Moderator

I can appreciate making sure to canonize somebody's work, but I can also empathize with the people who thinks it makes the titles in your collection or on a site....less pretty. I'm OCD about my song titles, whether they are downloaded by legal or illegal means. If I take a running tally in my head, Feat and Ft have to be the two most deleted words in my song's titles/information (see also: explicit, deluxe, [album version], and remastered.)

It would be nice if we could agree on one universal system "Feat or Ft, Artist Name or Song Title, etc" but since we can't I just delete them all. I'm smart enough to search rapgenius or, you know, study my album to know who is on it.

19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

Agree with 95 % of what you wrote, lethal, but it annoys me that once again you couldn't avoid getting personal. And bringing up "subconscious racism". You did it once before, quite frankly it's ridiculous and insulting (how ironic, given what the message of your post was)

Guest

19loveless91 wrote:

Agree with 95 % of what you wrote, lethal, but it annoys me that once again you couldn't avoid getting personal. And bringing up "subconscious racism". You did it once before, quite frankly it's ridiculous and insulting (how ironic, given what the message of your post was)

True, I was tired last night and having slept on it I realise there were better, more respectful ways of making my point.

Sorry Romanelli, I certainly shouldn't have gotten personal or labelled you a "closeted racist" (which I know you aren't, which perhaps makes the insult even worse, but I was personally offended by your post given that I make and take immense pleasure from hip-hop music. That being said, there was no need whatsoever for that particular slight, and I feel ashamed that I used it simply to further a point). I apologise wholeheartedly and retract the last paragraph of the post in question.

albummaster
Janitor

Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

ShaneSpear wrote:

I can appreciate making sure to canonize somebody's work, but I can also empathize with the people who thinks it makes the titles in your collection or on a site....less pretty. I'm OCD about my song titles, whether they are downloaded by legal or illegal means. If I take a running tally in my head, Feat and Ft have to be the two most deleted words in my song's titles/information (see also: explicit, deluxe, [album version], and remastered.)

It would be nice if we could agree on one universal system "Feat or Ft, Artist Name or Song Title, etc" but since we can't I just delete them all. I'm smart enough to search rapgenius or, you know, study my album to know who is on it.

I think we have to be pragmatic here, and I'm equally OCD about my music library. IMO, in the absence of additional fields to hold the extra information I think we need to hold this information as part of the title if it is credited as such (at least we shouldn't have the problem on BEA of 'deluxe', 'remastered' etc). By capturing it, we can acknowledge the people that do want this, and at some point in the future, we can then move the information into an additional field. I think annotating these consistently seems to be the main issue here, so I'm in favour of coming up with a common standard so that everyone is aware of how these should be listed. I think we should only do this where the featured artist is explicitly listed on the artwork as part of the track title (and not where they aren't). Hayden gave a few good examples earlier in the thread.

HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

Puncture Repair wrote:

If that's how it's listed on the jewel case, as far as I'm concerned that's what it should be listed on the site.

This, basically.

If I download an album which doesn't have the featured artists on the end of a song title then I add them myself, I think they're important so yeah I'd like to see them on BEA.
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Shut up mate you're boring!

Romanelli
Bone Swah

Gender: Male
Location: Broomfield, Colorado

Moderator

lethalnezzle wrote:

True, I was tired last night and having slept on it I realise there were better, more respectful ways of making my point.

Sorry Romanelli, I certainly shouldn't have gotten personal or labelled you a "closeted racist" (which I know you aren't, which perhaps makes the insult even worse, but I was personally offended by your post given that I make and take immense pleasure from hip-hop music. That being said, there was no need whatsoever for that particular slight, and I feel ashamed that I used it simply to further a point). I apologise wholeheartedly and retract the last paragraph of the post in question.

I just saw this today. I’m going to keep my response to you as short as possible.

You made some good and valid points about hip hop music. I admit that there are things that I do not fully understand about how some things work in the genre, and I may have not come across in a way that was fully sensitive to your feelings on the subject, for which I apologize to you. There are more instances of things that I mentioned than you are admitting, but whatever. I appreciate your passion for the music you love, as I have the same thing inside of me. It was not my intention to be insensitive towards you, and I’m sorry you took it that way, and that I came across that way.

I will comply with whatever decision albummaster comes to on the subject.

As for the last paragraph (and the later apology above): I will say this. You are EXTREMELY fortunate that you still have an account here. And if I, as a moderator, ever see you go off on anyone like you did to me again, I will do everything in my power to have you permanently banned from this site. You said things in that post that an apology simply does not cover. I work hard on this site to help make it better, and I will not be spoken to like that by anyone for speaking my mind…even if I am incorrect. And neither I, nor anyone else on this site, should endure the abuse that tends to spew forth from you. What you said is beyond apology, and you should really be ashamed.

I will post as little as possible on these forums from now on. I should have learned that a long time ago.
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May we all get to heaven
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ptaylor1989

Age: 34

I'm actually a HUGE hip-hop fan. My knowledge of jazz is extensive but my love for hip hop might very well be even larger. The reason I don't talk more hip-hop is because I literally haven't seen a good hip-hop chart. I'm still looking of course but I think most of the rap tastes on this site are a bit pedantic and cliche. They are built to be accessible and popular rather than challenging. I'm guilty of only including a certain type of rap album here because other than the hip hop game lethal puts on, people seem far more preoccupied with other genre. We all know hip-hop is largely a cultural aesthetic and like any canon of music takes a certain level of historical context to fully appreciate. The majority of discussed genre rarely overlaps with hip-hop but with all the hip hop we wade through, im shocked that a significant hip hop chart hasn't become more popular.

This BAWP crap isn't cutting it for me and it doesn't cut it for most avid fans. So please, I challenge someone to actually give their nuanced taste of rap a chance to coalesce into a meaningful chart. I can already tell which users have at least a nominal understanding of rap and am very interested in seeing what we come up with. A meaningful chart that invites members in and challenges their tastes is certainly much more important than blanketing and disempowering terms such as "racist".
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http://www.last.fm/user/ptaylor1989

Silver

ptaylor1989 wrote:

I'm actually a HUGE hip-hop fan. My knowledge of jazz is extensive but my love for hip hop might very well be even larger. The reason I don't talk more hip-hop is because I literally haven't seen a good hip-hop chart. I'm still looking of course but I think most of the rap tastes on this site are a bit pedantic and cliche. They are built to be accessible and popular rather than challenging. I'm guilty of only including a certain type of rap album here because other than the hip hop game lethal puts on, people seem far more preoccupied with other genre. We all know hip-hop is largely a cultural aesthetic and like any canon of music takes a certain level of historical context to fully appreciate. The majority of discussed genre rarely overlaps with hip-hop but with all the hip hop we wade through, im shocked that a significant hip hop chart hasn't become more popular.

This BAWP crap isn't cutting it for me and it doesn't cut it for most avid fans. So please, I challenge someone to actually give their nuanced taste of rap a chance to coalesce into a meaningful chart. I can already tell which users have at least a nominal understanding of rap and am very interested in seeing what we come up with. A meaningful chart that invites members in and challenges their tastes is certainly much more important than blanketing and disempowering terms such as "racist".

I do like hip-hop, but I can't say I know it as well as most other genres, and probably have fairly BAWP tastes. I love A Tribe Called Quest, Eric B. & Rakim, Beastie Boys, Kendrick Lamar, that sort of stuff. I can't say I've delved deep enough to really give a fully educated opinion, but I would like to see more hip-hop discussion going on around here as well, both for the fact that I could learn from it as well as the fact there isn't enough. Also I agree with the featuring stuff to be in song titles, if that's the artist's intentions I agree with it, and it does make a difference to the song when there is a guest and that should be acknowledged when it's so ingrained into the culture.

Puncture Repair

Romanelli wrote:

I will post as little as possible on these forums from now on. I should have learned that a long time ago.

I always enjoy your contributions to the site, regardless of your personal opinion. It's healthy to have both sides of the coin - we're all prone to taking things personally and to heart now and then. I sincerely hope you don't mean this.