science and religion

[ZebraRock]

Well, that's easy. God created the first atom which then expanded into the universe, with his help, planning, and direction.

[GARY]

So then we can safely say

Intelligent design.


Can you have a reality where both Intelligent design and evolution exist?
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I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat



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[GARY]

Do you think the story of Noah and the arc is just a "story" or do you believe that the flood and the ark were real just as they are described in Genesis ?
_________________
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I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat



.

[ZebraRock]

Yes, that's the point I keep trying to make. Evolution is included in intelligent design, and both can be true.
As for Noah, I don't know if its a poetic re-wording of a cataclysmic event, a warning from God, or a literal story. Either way the point is still there, and it's still a valid story.
But I just don't know what it is exactly.

[RoundTheBend]

I used to be somewhat to very religious. Then things just stopped adding up to me. I took a world religion class, and as a Christian, I kinda laughed at Hinduism because it was such a foreign idea to me, and I thought "How could anyone believe in that?"

Now I am just as skeptical of any religion. I feel like it is all a story that we can believe in to make us feel (fill in the blank). I am a German Lit. major, and I am sure German Philosophy hasn't helped much in my change of beliefs. I used to feel like religion was the real truth (esp. Christianity), but I have come to realize that religion is exactly what Marx said it was- "Opium for the masses."

I think it is a pacifier for many different things. Cultural stability, power for the elite, a belief in a better world after this one, etc.

I mention this not in a mean spirit. I don't hate religion, or anything like that. It's just kinda like when you find out Santa Claus isn't real, it is a disappointment, but you don't hate Santa Claus. So I am stuck trying not to offend those that are still religious (most of my friends), but at the same time want to be true to myself, and not feel like I am living a lie.

So, do I live a lie and play the religion game (best argument for religion: you have nothing to loose if it is just a game, but everything to loose if it isn't) and be happy within my environment or do I be true to myself and live a life that is brutally honest and depressing?

[RFNAPLES]

Why be depressing?
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[RoundTheBend]

Well- religion gives people hope, whether it is true or not. What should I hope for now: cool experiences, materialistic things, learning new things (which most of the time makes me more depressed- that whole innocence is bliss is so true)? Those are all great, but to what end? I understand now why Nihilism was acceptable to those that lost faith in everything.

[dwils0891]

Nihilism is acceptable to those that lost faith in everything except nihilism. Everyone believes in something and that includes nihilists. To believe in nothing is still to believe in something. To believe in nihilism takes faith just like every other belief/theory known to man. It wouldn't be a belief or theory if it was a known fact and did not require faith in order to believe in that belief or theory. I think people lose sight of what science is in its respect and what religion is in its respect. That's the main difference between modern society and ancient society. People now are losing sight of sciences boundaries. People now see science as 100% verifiable truth but science is based on experimentation, observation, and theory. It takes faith to believe in evolution. It takes faith to be a nihilist. It takes faith to believe in a God. It takes faith to believe that Abraham Lincoln was a real person who actually existed. It takes faith to get up every morning (faith that you won't step out of bed and fall into the deep dark pits of Hades or instantly die of a heart attack). It takes faith to believe in the big bang theory. It takes faith to believe in Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, or any other religion out there. Anyways I think my point has been made. I just wanted to prove how important faith is to us as humans. How essential it is to our existence. I think nihilism is a poor attempt to deny something that is part of our very nature. Denying oneself of belief and/or faith would be treason like denying oneself of love, or hope, or knowledge. Treason.

[Bork]

One could of course argue that there is a difference in the faith required to believe that the floor will still be there next morning as it has the past 5000 mornings and the faith required to think praying to the deity of your choice makes any difference whatsoever this particular time even though it hasn't any of the other.

[dwils0891]

Sure, that's a good point. Different types of faith. Or possibly different degrees of faith. If you were to look up faith in the dictionary it would say something like complete trust or belief in something. I think I believe in different degrees of faith as opposed to different types. To me faith is fairly fundamental it's hard to break down faith any further than it already is. Therefore I would say instead of different types of faith I would argue for different degrees of faith. For example the difference between believing in God vs. getting out of bed in the morning. I think that this example is obvious whereas others may not be so obvious. For this example it is quite obvious that belief in God which cannot be seen, heard, or smelled (some would argue the presence of God can be felt that is why I didn't use that example) requires a much stronger faith or a much higher degree of faith than getting out of bed in the morning. This is because a God would be supernatural and most of us have gotten out of bed every morning our entire lives and so far the floor has always been there. Therefore It takes very little faith to get out of bed in the morning. But to believe in a supernatural being that cannot be seen, heard, nor smelled, nor tasted is much harder to believe in of course. When it comes to prayer being effective that is a very tough argument because we can only observe that for sure in our own lives.