What's Your Religion? - Politics & Religion

Happymeal

BrandonMeow wrote:

That's what I was trying to say, but said better.

That's actually exactly what you said. Said in basically the same way.

Guest

BrandonMeow wrote:

I pretty much don't care about whether God exists or not, but I think religion can be really beautiful. It kind of irks me when people scoff at the religious and are like, "Gullible brainwashed fools!" I don't understand how people can live with such cynicism. Then again, the bigoted religious who want everyone to be like them are just as annoying. It goes both ways.

Sure, maybe we've outgrown religion as a society, but on a personal level it gives people something to put their faith in, and something to help them through life. Sometimes people aren't strong enough to withstand all the difficulties of life all on their own.

I agree to an extent, but it's kind of a grey area, in my opinion. For example, while religion can often make people feel better and give them the illusion of having a helping hand, I also think it can be very harmful to the psyche to be utterly convinced that you are dependent on a higher power, that you are powerless to help yourself, etc. This is the angle that Alcoholics Anonymous exploits, and it's frankly insulting. That being said, as long as people keep to themselves, I don't really care. I just don't really agree with the whole it-can-be-helpful-on-a-personal-level idea.

Guest

swedenman wrote:

I agree to an extent, but it's kind of a grey area, in my opinion. For example, while religion can often make people feel better and give them the illusion of having a helping hand, I also think it can be very harmful to the psyche to be utterly convinced that you are dependent on a higher power, that you are powerless to help yourself, etc. This is the angle that Alcoholics Anonymous exploits, and it's frankly insulting. That being said, as long as people keep to themselves, I don't really care. I just don't really agree with the whole it-can-be-helpful-on-a-personal-level idea.

Yeah, I guess it all really depends. Everything in moderation, haha. Believing some higher power is looking out for you can be healthy, but being dependent on it isn't. Being dependent on anything is usually a bad thing.

HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male

Age: 33

Location: UK

Jasonconfused wrote:

That said, I've seen religion have beautiful effects on people's lives on a personal basis. There are a lot of weak-minded people in this world that need the belief in some more powerful being in order to get through some very difficult situations. I have no issue with people having a religion of there own. My problem is when religion gets organized and they start spreading it to the point where they are forcing it on other people.

Yes this is well put as Brandon says and is sort of the point I was trying to make. When I saw my grandma cry for the first time when her brother died but she said it was ok because she could see him in heaven, I thought it was great that she could take comfort in that, even though I don't believe it to be true. Still, I do think it's possible to have this sort of idea of what happens when someone dies without subscribing to a particular religion and same goes for believing in god and stuff like that. People can all have their personal thoughts on these subjects separate to the ideas proposed by certain religions, there's no need for millions of people (most of whom only happen to follow a certain religion by chance) to believe in the same thing on these subjects.

And that's essentially why I feel organised religion is dangerous. It's not that there's people out there who believe in god and heaven and stuff that scares me, I think that's pretty harmless. It's more the tribal nature of religions which causes war and conflict and the power of a few within religions to influence the sense of morality of those who follow them. For one example, if the pope changes his mind about something tomorrow there will be millions of catholics across the world who will do the same without even taking the time to scrutinise or even think about why, I think that's crazy.

It's this power that religious leaders wield that has held back progress in the West on many issues such as civil rights, women's rights, gay rights etc and is essentially a block to these things in certain countries today; see Saudi Arabia or Uganda. You can add to that the people who are being killed on a daily basis across the world either directly in the name of religion or in conflicts inspired by religion and you should see that we really would be better off without.

So no I won't talk down to anyone who is religious, there are many reasons/motives for being so, but I will maintain that organised religion is a terrible thing for the world and hope that one day we'll be rid of it.
_________________
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Bork

Executive Hillbilly

Location: Vinson Mountain, GA

For the most part I don't think it has all that much to do with weak-minded people. There is no real reason to believe Americans or Italians are in general more weak-minded than Swedes or Danes. It probably has more to do with the cultural debate and peer-pressure than the strength of people's minds.

Also, and I appear to be in a minority here, Dawkins is pretty great.

Guest

Bork wrote:

For the most part I don't think it has all that much to do with weak-minded people. There is no real reason to believe Americans or Italians are in general more weak-minded than Swedes or Danes. It probably has more to do with the cultural debate and peer-pressure than the strength of people's minds.

Also, and I appear to be in a minority here, Dawkins is pretty great.

He's a genius, but he's unbelievably arrogant and close-minded.

Bork

Executive Hillbilly

Location: Vinson Mountain, GA

swedenman wrote:

He's a genius, but he's unbelievably arrogant and close-minded.

I disagree with the close-minded and prefer to call him refreshingly arrogant when it comes to religion. On his general topics of evolutionary biology I don't think he is arrogant at all.

Defago

Your Most Favorite User

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Age: 31

Location: Lima

Bork wrote:

I disagree with the close-minded and prefer to call him refreshingly arrogant when it comes to religion. On his general topics of evolutionary biology I don't think he is arrogant at all.

Agree.

Guest

Bork wrote:

I disagree with the close-minded and prefer to call him refreshingly arrogant when it comes to religion. On his general topics of evolutionary biology I don't think he is arrogant at all.

I'm too tired to give a terribly coherent or intellectual response to this, but I'll give it my best shot. My problem with Dawkins is that he views all religion as the ultimate evil. When I say he is "close-minded", it's because he strikes me as someone who sees all religious people as being the same: mindless sheep who are intent on collapsing the internal fabric of society whether they realize it or not. Now, while some of these stereotypes may be true to an extent, it's extremely reductive, and his overwillingness to immediately go on the offensive in any debate with religious folk (even if said religious folk are rather passive and innocuous) is highly irritating. That being said, he does, on occasion, shut down religious assholes who have it coming, and I can certainly appreciate him for that. This piece on William Lane Craig (the most despicable, biased, illogical, belligerent, self-righteous waste of matter I've encountered on the Internet) is rather entertaining.

Facetious

Gender: Male

Age: 24

Location: Somewhere you've never been

Dunno really. I might go on being a Muslim but my faith, admittedly, might not be as strong as it used to be. I'm not going to write a long argument on why this is, but I feel I should say that Muhammad shouldn't have been the last prophet. Just look at this era and how many non-believers there are now, isn't this the perfect time for another prophet? Wouldn't God think that we need to be convinced as much about religious values and such stuff now as much as He felt that the Arabs needed it? Maybe in this era God could change the rules about hell, for example, a bit? Is God really just going to stop at Islam?