Best Ever Actors and Actresses [POLL] **CLOSED** - Games

bobbyb5

Gender: Male
Location: New York

StreetSpirit wrote:

I think it's true. I remember reading somewhere that in the history of film and television, men are on the screen nearly twice as often as women. And men have about 70% of prominent roles. Now I haven't seen everything that's ever been made but based on the 2500-3000 movies/shows I've seen, I believe those stats.

Yeah, very true what you said about the genders more likely to identify with one another than the opposite. And most of the women I've known over the years aren't as interested in movies/music as men, and not as inclined to make lists of their favorites. I reckon that's a reason why there isn't much of a female presence on BEA. I guess the two genders are inherently different in that way. However, as I stated earlier in this thread, I would like to see some female BEAers participate. It would be refreshing to hear from them, especially in a poll like this where there is a gender line. Although what's this about a couple users want to erase that line and combine them onto one list? No.

Now that you mention it, it does seem that men Stars get more screen time than women today. This seems obvious.
There's even more men Stars today. But in the past it didn't seem like it. If you think about the old days of Hollywood just as many legendary women stars come to mind as men. And if you look at the top 10 box office stars from, say, the 30s through the 70s, there was as many women as men. I think this is because today the most popular kind of movies are either some sort of action flick or some sort of superhero flick. Which are male type roles.
But the subject matter of most movies was very different in the past.
And I'd love to see more women on this site. More of my favorite albums would probably be higher ranked since many of my favorites are by female artists. And I agree that actors and actresses should be on separate lists. It would turn out better for actresses probably
The poster doing the poll said they were thinking about changing it to a combined list. And I said that they should leave it at separate list.

badseed

Gender: Male
Age: 35
Location: FL

bobbyb5 wrote:

Now that you mention it, it does seem that men Stars get more screen time than women today. This seems obvious.
There's even more men Stars today. But in the past it didn't seem like it. If you think about the old days of Hollywood just as many legendary women stars come to mind as men. And if you look at the top 10 box office stars from, say, the 30s through the 70s, there was as many women as men.

I feel like it's the opposite. There are big name actresses getting top billing today like crazy, and aside from Leo and maybe The Rock, there really aren't any men that are guaranteed money anymore. The name doesn't really sell the movie these days. It's all about marketing. Biggest box office stars used to be whose name value brought in the most money (Harrison Ford, Clint Eastwood, Sean Connery, Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, etc.) but now it's been overtaken with a who's who of whoever has been in the most Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Marvel films (I think Samuel L. Jackson is #1 now. I love Sam but that's laughable because he's just getting supporting parts in guaranteed money makers, not being the reason people go to the movies). But let's go back to the past... Without looking at these top ten box office stars lists (I know they exist) I'd wager a lot of the big female box office stars of the 30s (Shirley Temple, Myrna Loy) weren't the same as the 40s (Rita Hayworth, Betty Grable) which weren't the same for the 50s (Marilyn Monroe, Doris Day) and so on. Due to the way Hollywood cast women back then, they would bring in more young pretty faces to star in their big pictures, leaving only the most talented and motivated women (Katharine Hepburn, Bette Davis, Ingrid Bergman) to make much of an impact once they reached their 40s and beyond while less expensive character actresses got all the good supporting roles (on the contrary today there are plenty of good parts for a variety of older actresses). Meanwhile the likes of Claudette Colbert, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck and Marlene Dietrich would work far less frequently and/or with much less success with age. Audrey Hepburn and Greta Garbo were amazing, glamorous stars for about 15 years each and then they practically disappeared from sight. Contemporaries like James Stewart, Cary Grant, Henry Fonda and Gregory Peck made all time great films in at minimum four different decades; Humphrey Bogart, Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy and John Wayne were top-billed major stars from the time they made it big until the day they died. You also had long, Oscar-worthy careers from James Cagney, Burt Lancaster, Robert Mitchum, Kirk Douglas, William Holden, etc. all in that time frame.

bobbyb5

Gender: Male
Location: New York

badseed wrote:

bobbyb5 wrote:

Now that you mention it, it does seem that men Stars get more screen time than women today. This seems obvious.
There's even more men Stars today. But in the past it didn't seem like it. If you think about the old days of Hollywood just as many legendary women stars come to mind as men. And if you look at the top 10 box office stars from, say, the 30s through the 70s, there was as many women as men.

I feel like it's the opposite. There are big name actresses getting top billing today like crazy, and aside from Leo and maybe The Rock, there really aren't any men that are guaranteed money anymore. The name doesn't really sell the movie these days. It's all about marketing. Biggest box office stars used to be whose name value brought in the most money (Harrison Ford, Clint Eastwood, Sean Connery, Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, etc.) but now it's been overtaken with a who's who of whoever has been in the most Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Marvel films (I think Samuel L. Jackson is #1 now. I love Sam but that's laughable because he's just getting supporting parts in guaranteed money makers, not being the reason people go to the movies). But let's go back to the past... Without looking at these top ten box office stars lists (I know they exist) I'd wager a lot of the big female box office stars of the 30s (Shirley Temple, Myrna Loy) weren't the same as the 40s (Rita Hayworth, Betty Grable) which weren't the same for the 50s (Marilyn Monroe, Doris Day) and so on. Due to the way Hollywood cast women back then, they would bring in more young pretty faces to star in their big pictures, leaving only the most talented and motivated women (Katharine Hepburn, Bette Davis, Ingrid Bergman) to make much of an impact once they reached their 40s and beyond while less expensive character actresses got all the good supporting roles (on the contrary today there are plenty of good parts for a variety of older actresses). Meanwhile the likes of Claudette Colbert, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck and Marlene Dietrich would work far less frequently and/or with much less success with age. Audrey Hepburn and Greta Garbo were amazing, glamorous stars for about 15 years each and then they practically disappeared from sight. Contemporaries like James Stewart, Cary Grant, Henry Fonda and Gregory Peck made all time great films in at minimum four different decades; Humphrey Bogart, Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy and John Wayne were top-billed major stars from the time they made it big until the day they died. You also had long, Oscar-worthy careers from James Cagney, Burt Lancaster, Robert Mitchum, Kirk Douglas, William Holden, etc. all in that time frame.

.

Most of those male Stars you named may have made films in four decades, but they weren't big box office draws for that long. They were just famous. Most of those you named were only huge Stars in the forties and fifties, even though they kept making movies. And a lot of women Stars did the same exact thing. Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Olivia de Havilland, Lana Turner, Ava Gardner, Shelley Winters, Elizabeth Taylor, Judy Garland all had long 40 year careers also. And I'm sure there's more too.

badseed

Gender: Male
Age: 35
Location: FL

bobbyb5 wrote:

badseed wrote:

bobbyb5 wrote:

Now that you mention it, it does seem that men Stars get more screen time than women today. This seems obvious.
There's even more men Stars today. But in the past it didn't seem like it. If you think about the old days of Hollywood just as many legendary women stars come to mind as men. And if you look at the top 10 box office stars from, say, the 30s through the 70s, there was as many women as men.

I feel like it's the opposite. There are big name actresses getting top billing today like crazy, and aside from Leo and maybe The Rock, there really aren't any men that are guaranteed money anymore. The name doesn't really sell the movie these days. It's all about marketing. Biggest box office stars used to be whose name value brought in the most money (Harrison Ford, Clint Eastwood, Sean Connery, Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks, etc.) but now it's been overtaken with a who's who of whoever has been in the most Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and Marvel films (I think Samuel L. Jackson is #1 now. I love Sam but that's laughable because he's just getting supporting parts in guaranteed money makers, not being the reason people go to the movies). But let's go back to the past... Without looking at these top ten box office stars lists (I know they exist) I'd wager a lot of the big female box office stars of the 30s (Shirley Temple, Myrna Loy) weren't the same as the 40s (Rita Hayworth, Betty Grable) which weren't the same for the 50s (Marilyn Monroe, Doris Day) and so on. Due to the way Hollywood cast women back then, they would bring in more young pretty faces to star in their big pictures, leaving only the most talented and motivated women (Katharine Hepburn, Bette Davis, Ingrid Bergman) to make much of an impact once they reached their 40s and beyond while less expensive character actresses got all the good supporting roles (on the contrary today there are plenty of good parts for a variety of older actresses). Meanwhile the likes of Claudette Colbert, Joan Crawford, Barbara Stanwyck and Marlene Dietrich would work far less frequently and/or with much less success with age. Audrey Hepburn and Greta Garbo were amazing, glamorous stars for about 15 years each and then they practically disappeared from sight. Contemporaries like James Stewart, Cary Grant, Henry Fonda and Gregory Peck made all time great films in at minimum four different decades; Humphrey Bogart, Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy and John Wayne were top-billed major stars from the time they made it big until the day they died. You also had long, Oscar-worthy careers from James Cagney, Burt Lancaster, Robert Mitchum, Kirk Douglas, William Holden, etc. all in that time frame.

.

Most of those male Stars you named may have made films in four decades, but they weren't big box office draws for that long. They were just famous. Most of those you named were only huge Stars in the forties and fifties, even though they kept making movies. And a lot of women Stars did the same exact thing. Bette Davis, Joan Crawford, Olivia de Havilland, Lana Turner, Ava Gardner, Shelley Winters, Elizabeth Taylor, Judy Garland all had long 40 year careers also. And I'm sure there's more too.

We can sit here and argue over history all day. I'm not gonna try too hard to prove you wrong but this is the way I see it. Judy Garland was basically a has been come the 50s, too depressed and hooked on drugs and what not. She occasionally made a great film but she wasn't as huge a star at that point. De Havilland and Turner had about ten years on top. Davis was huge in the 30s and 40s but just look at the plot to All About Eve because it was basically real life although she was talented enough to get some decent roles in the 50s and 60s her days as a top star were finished. Same with Crawford to an extent. Maybe not every man I named was a box office star their whole life but a large chunk of them were still starring in the best films by the best directors well into their 50s while most big actresses of that time (Winters for example, and Davis and Crawford included) resorted to lots B movies. John Wayne was still money in the 60s. Clint Eastwood was still money in the 90s. How many old women have been major stars who get leading roles on an almost yearly basis? Even Katharine Hepburn slowed down (admittedly so did Henry Fonda) in the 70s before winning one last (undeserved) Oscar for On Golden Pond. Meryl Streep has is by default the objective best actress ever due to her versatility and longevity but she's never been a big money maker and although she's surpassed most of her contemporaries in the acting department, especially over the last 20 years, she still hasn't been in as many all time great classic beloved films as they have (Nicholson, Pacino, De Niro, Hoffman, Hackman, Ford, etc.) and still takes second billing to the likes of Denzel and Tom Hanks so therefore the objective best actress of all time would be lucky to make an objective top ten movie stars of all time list. Just my opinion. Before her I'd say Katharine had the "GOAT" title and she was never as big a star as Bogart and always took second billing to Tracy and was even labeled "box office poison" during the 30s so much like Streep there's people from her time period that just generally had more great movies (although Streep has the advantage of taking supporting roles, something someone like Hepburn wouldn't be caught dead doing back in her day). I'm just doing basic math to come up with these numbers; correct me if you think any actress ever starred in anything as important, impactful or good as Vertigo or To Kill a Mockingbird or The Godfather late in their careers. Just look at the American Film Institute's old list of top 25 actors and actresses. Nearly every actor on the males list was a major star for at minimum ten years (James Dean, Buster Keaton and the Marx Bros. being exceptions). Quite a few of them had long careers. Look at the female list and with just a couple exceptions (again, Hepburn, Davis, Bergman), all of their top signature roles came within roughly a ten year period. Crawford and Garland had the occasional comeback picture but for the most part that's how it's been. Only the most talented survive. Look at Kirsten Dunst, Christini Ricci, Thora Birch, etc. None of them was ever all that great but they looked very nice as young women so they got some good roles in some good movies. I'm a fan of all three women but it's hard to break out without standing out. Even people slightly more famous than them... Charlize Theron is great but and I'm sure she's been working but what did she actually do in between Monster and Mad Max? For such an awesome actress you'd think she'd have more memorable roles 20+ years into her career but she's not alone in that it's very hard for women to find good roles in marketable films. Nothing wrong with indie films but when they're so indie that they can't be marketed it's harder even for people like us to find them. Meanwhile DiCaprio, Bale, Hardy, Fassbender, Downey Jr, even Channing Tatum are probably sitting on multiple big money contracts for multiple good films that will be successful and/or win awards.

tl;dr
Women on average throughout history lack the longevity that men do as major film stars and also in general have had less memorable roles over the course of time. Just look at the cast of films like Casablanca, The Godfather, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and Pulp Fiction. Some of BEA's favorite films. More dudes than chicks. The numbers don't lie unless you're like Mercury and really dig chick flicks.

AwaitingAndrew

Gender: Male

I'm not 100% on the last few of my actresses list and may revise this, but I just saw Darkest Hour and need to ensure the legend, Gary Oldman, is seen at his rightful place. Props to everyone who has already listed him.

Actors:
Gary Oldman
Leonardo DiCaprio
Tom Hanks
Robin Williams
James Stewart
Tom Hardy
Jake Gyllenhaal
Zachary Levi
Will Smith
Cary Grant
Henry Fonda
Matt Damon
Christian Bale
Andrew Garfield
Joseph Gordon-Levitt
Jim Carrey
Tom Cruise
Hugh Jackman
Bryan Cranston
Jason Segel
J.K. Simmons
Ken Watanabe
Robert De Niro
Humphrey Bogart
Chris Evans
Guy Pearce
Paul Newman
Gary Cooper
Kevin Spacey
Morgan Freeman
Harrison Ford
Michael Caine
Ryan Gosling
Jack Nicholson
Edward Everett Horton
Michael Shannon
Cillian Murphy
Philip Seymour Hoffman
Fred MacMurray
Liam Neeson
Fred Astaire
Al Pacino
Charles Chaplin
Will Ferrell
Jack Lemmon
Claude Rains
Marlon Brando
Vince Vaughn
Jeremy Renner
Hiroyuki Sanada

Actresses:
Kate Winslet
Shailene Woodley
Grace Kelly
Amy Adams
Gemma Arterton
Barbara Stanwyck
Ginger Rogers
Emma Stone
Katharine Hepburn
Jean Arthur
Keira Knightley
Irene Dunne
Audrey Hepburn
Kim Novak
Joan Fontaine
Rachel McAdams
Jennifer Lawrence
Eva Marie Saint
Hayley Atwell
Marion Cotillard
Margot Robbie
Ingrid Bergman
Carole Lombard
Cobie Smulders
Emilia Clarke
Annette Bening
Hedy Lamarr
Rooney Mara
Scarlett Johansson
Anne Hathaway
Rosalind Russell
Lauren Bacall
Jessica Chastain
Donna Reed
Brie Larson
Gene Tierney
Margaret Sullavan
Vera Miles
Michelle Williams
Cate Blanchett
Maggie Cheung
Catherine Deneuve
Alicia Vikander
Vivien Leigh
Shirley MacLaine
Carey Mulligan
Sigourney Weaver
Viola Davis
Celia Johnson
Molly Ringwald

It's practically impossible for me to separate acting in film vs elsewhere, and I'm also influenced by some off-camera work, but I did manage to eliminate television actors I love, like Donald Glover for instance, who I haven't seen in a film for more than a few minutes.

badseed

Gender: Male
Age: 35
Location: FL

Nice list Double A. Lots of underrated talent in both. I assumed Gary Oldman would be a big favorite here.

I haven't received any PMs so the only lists so far are the ones on this post. If we stick with the ideal deadline you guys have roughly 20 days. I'm definitely hoping we get a few more lists in.

Alright, these are my revised lists.

Greta Garbo
Bette Davis
Harriet Andersson
Anna Karina
Meryl Streep
Ingrid Bergman
Marlene Dietrich
Cate Blanchett
Gena Rowlands
Liv Ullman

Julie Christie
Claudette Colbert
Sissy Spacek
Katharine Hepburn
Kate Winslet
Joan Crawford
Maria Falconetti
Anne Bancroft
Frances McDormand
Sophia Loren

Faye Dunaway
Bibi Andersson
Catherine Deneuve
Shirley MacLaine
Judi Dench
Pam Grier
Hanna Schygulla
Amy Adams
Diane Keaton
Charlotte Gainsbourgh

Deborah Kerr
Isabelle Adjani
Susan Sarandon
Jane Fonda
Uma Thurman
Ellen Burstyn
Nicole Kidman
Claudia Cardinale
Olivia de Havilland
Julianne Moore

Helen Mirren
Tilda Swinton
Vivien Leigh
Barbara Stanwyck
Jeanne Moreau
Ruth Gordon
Charlize Theron
Andie MacDowell
Brigitte Bardot
Ingrid Thulin

Charlie Chaplin
Christopher Lee
Sean Penn
Philip Seymour Hoffman
Daniel Day-Lewis
Marlon Brando
Boris Karloff
Udo Kier
Fredric March
Brad Dourif

James Stewart
Dustin Hoffman
Jack Nicholson
Henry Fonda
Alec Guinness
Spencer Tracy
Gary Oldman
Peter O'Toole
Robert De Niro
Max von Sydow

Al Pacino
Laurence Olivier
Lon Chaney
Michael Caine
Klaus Kinski
Robert Duvall
Gene Hackman
Gunnar Bjornstrand
Lee Marvin
Jack Lemmon

Jeff Bridges
Donald Sutherland
Toshiro Mifune
Jim Carrey
Ernest Borgnine
Tom Hardy
Paul Newman
Buster Keaton
James Cagney
Peter Sellers

Leonardo DiCaprio
Kirk Douglas
Robert Mitchum
Oscar Isaac
Peter Cushing
Dennis Hopper
Montgomery Clift
Claude Rains
Paul Dano
Burt Lancaster

Last edited by badseed on 01/16/2018 10:23; edited 1 time in total

Hayden

Aight, will do my best to get a list in this week. I got a rough list, but nothing ranked...
_________________
Submit Your List for BEA's 2023 Film Poll!

CA Dreamin

Gender: Male
Location: LA

Ok, ladies first

Criteria for this list was:

1. Number of films/performances I've seen and liked.
2. How much their name alone makes me want to see their films
3. Acting range (can they be heroines and villains, leads and supporters, serious and funny, etc)
4. Filmography over time (Ex. nobody under the age of 30 was allowed in my top 30...they need to have a bigger, more diverse body of work than exclusively young roles)

Sexual attractiveness did not factor in this list. I don't think it was mentioned before, but isn't attractiveness subjective as well? If this appears to be somewhat based on looks, that's coincidental.

I guess since others have done so, I included a performance I really liked:

1. Barbara Stanwyck (Double Indemnity)
2. Faye Dunaway (Bonnie and Clyde)
3. Julianne Moore (Magnolia)
4. Frances McDormand (Fargo)
5. Lauren Bacall (The Big Sleep)
6. Jodie Foster (The Little Girl Who Lives Down the Lane)
7. Ingrid Bergman (Notorious)
8. Cate Blanchett (Blue Jasmine)
9. Meryl Streep (Doubt)
10. Olivia de Havilland (The Heiress)
11. Tilda Swinton (We Need to Talk About Kevin)
12. Annette Bening (American Beauty)
13. Elizabeth Taylor (Cat on a Hot Tin Roof)
14. Winona Ryder (Reality Bites)
15. Audrey Hepburn (How to Steal a Million)
16. Katherine Hepburn (The African Queen)
17. Naomi Watts (Funny Games)
18. Diane Keaton (Annie Hall)
19. Joan Fontaine (Rebecca)
20. Sally Field (Soapdish)
21. Marlene Dietrich (The Blue Angel)
22. Nicole Kidman (Cold Mountain)
23. Bette Davis (All About Eve)
24. Scarlett Johansson (Match Point)
25. Sissy Spacek (In the Bedroom)
26. Kate Winslet (Heavenly Creatures)
27. Amy Adams (Nocturnal Animals)
28. Susan Sarandon (Thelma and Louise)
29. Catherine Keener (Being John Malkovich)
30. Geena Davis (A League of Their Own)
31. Shirley MaClaine (The Apartment)
32. Emma Stone (Zombieland)
33. Jean Arthur (You Can't Take it With You)
34. Emily Blunt (Sicario)
35. Jessica Chastain (Interstellar)
36. Deborah Kerr (Black Narcissus)
37. Holly Hunter (Raising Arizona)
38. Marisa Tomei (the Seinfeld episode where she punches George)
39. Gene Tierney (Laura)
40. Keira Knightley (Atonement)
41. Mia Farrow (Rosemary's Baby)
42. Charlize Theron (Young Adult)
43. Jennifer Lawrence (mother!)
44. Jane Fonda (The China Syndrome)
45. Myrna Loy (The Thin Man)
46. Grace Kelly (Dial M for Murder)
47. Joan Crawford (Mildred Pierce)
48. Whoopi Goldberg (The Color Purple)
49. Kathleen Turner (Body Heat)
50. Glenn Close (Fatal Attraction)

FelixC

Ellen Burstyn
Mae West
Geraldine Page
Jennifer Lawrence
Emily Watson
Glenda Jackson
Natalie Portman
Barbra Streisand
Jane Fonda
Vivien Leigh
Sandy Dennis
Maggie Smith
Lynn Redgrave
Madeline Kahn
Rachel Roberts
Bette Davis
Sissy Spacek
Peggy Ashcroft
Anna Magnani
Judy Garland
Cloris Leachman
Delphine Seyrig
Kim Stanley
Faye Dunaway
Judy Davis
Genevieve Bujold
Dyan Cannon
Estelle Parsons
Alfre Woodard
Holly Hunter
Carrol Baker
Constance Bennett
Margaret Dumont
Sophia Loren
Liv Ullman
Helen Mirren
Judi Dench
Kathleen Turner
Meryl Streep
Anna Massey
Sandrine Bonnaire
Gloria Grahame
Hannah Schygula
Linda Fiorentino
Teri Garr
Roz Russell
Joan Blondell
Jean Simmons
Lee Grant
Wendy Hiller

Marlon Brando
W.C. Fields
Ian McKellan
Russell Crowe
Michael Redgrave
Daniel Day-Lewis
Martin Sheen
Jeremy Irons
John Garfield
Guy Pearce
Ray Liotta
Sterling Hayden
Ralph Richardson
James Franco
John Gielgud
Edward G Robinson
Orson Welles
James Mason
Laurence Olivier
Christopher Plummer
Marcello Mastroianni
James Cagney
Joseph Cotten
Christoph Waltz
James Caan
Peter Sellers
Jim Broadbent
Forrest Whitaker
Eric Roberts
William Holden
Paul Newman
Albert Finney
Melvyn Douglas
Lee J. Cobb
Adrien Brody
Brad Dourif
Broderick Crawford
Laurence Harvey
Samuel Jackson
Colin Firth
Groucho Marx
Keir Dullea
Seymour Cassals
James Coburn
Laurence Fishburne
Nick Nolte
Burt Reynolds
Raul Julia
Sal Mineo
Tom Berenson

Last edited by FelixC on 01/16/2018 10:58; edited 6 times in total

badseed

Gender: Male
Age: 35
Location: FL

More great lists. Just some thoughts:

James Stewart is freaking killing it. I haven't tallied anything but he seems to have a legit shot at winning based on what I see. Kinda shocking to be honest. I figured most of the lists would be more versatility/method based, and while he was no slouch regarding emotion for his time period he didn't have as dynamic a presence as the likes of Cagney or Tracy or the transformation skills of a Fredric March. Then again he was in a lot more generally spoken of classics. That's nothing against Stewart as an actor by the way, as he was very high on my list as well, and his work in Vertigo is one of my favorite performances ever.

I guess most people haven't watched many Garbo films? Kinda sad she's not on many lists. Get the box set from WB. Cost me a hundred bucks when it came out 10+ years ago but I've seen it going for cheap lately. Worth every penny. Talk about commanding the screen, she was simply the best.

Also we need more Ingmar Bergman cast members. Seems Max and Liv are getting a decent bit of love but Harriet Andersson anyone?

For all you Jennifer Lawrence fans (I'm a fan too but I'm with whoever it was who has trouble ranking young stars highly for the most part), what are your thoughts on "mother!"? I haven't got around to it yet but it seems to be getting Antichrist/A Serbian Film level ratings where it's either a masterpiece or a nonsensical disaster depending on who you ask, but absolutely nothing in between. I'm sure that means I'll love it Laughing