PoD (#1): Lyrical Diversity in Hip Hop - Music

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Today's Point of Discussion comes from yours truly.

This is something that's been circling the internet recently, and I thought it would be a waste not to see what people think.

A recent website has published a ranking of Hip Hop artists that have the largest vocabulary. Aesop Rock, perhaps unsurprisingly, ranks at number one, and DMX sits at last place. Perhaps most interesting is the entire of Wu-Tang are groups towards the top of the ranking.

You can find it here:

http://rappers.mdaniels.com.s3-website-...onaws.com/

It's a fun list and article, but does it have any larger implications? Is lyrical diversity a major factor (or the main factor) in determining the quality of a Hip Hop artist? Are there any parts of this research that surprise you? Is the research reliable?

Let us know what you think.

Point of Discussion is designed to provide the forums with a steady and reliable chance to discuss ideas and thoughts on music related subjects. Point of Discussion Threads are published every Monday and Thursday. If you would like to submit a quote, question, article or theory that we can talk about next, send me a private message - all ideas are welcome.

WindowAbove

Gender: Male
Age: 25
Location: Iowa

Good flow, lyrics, beats; good lyrics don't necessarily have to be diverse but it helps.

HazeyTwilight
boyfriend in your wet dreams

Gender: Male
Age: 26
Location: Elmo Knows Where You Live

In my opinion, the diversity of the lyrics all depend on the type of genre. There's different categories that hip-hop can fall under (like conscious, hardcore, gangsta). Normally, if an artist falls under one of these categories they would have to present themselves in a certain way. Or if there are certain characters in hip-hop. I'll use Eminem as an example for this: Eminem incorporates multiple personalities and aliases into his songs, you have Slim Shady and you have Marshall Mathers, two different attitudes presenting themselves differently but essentially the same person.

I also agree that region effects so much in this spectrum. It is interesting to see artists from the South reach above average - even surpassing Shakespeare of all people. Though it amounts to and depends on what education each artist had been exposed to and the amount of views, opinions and contributions that their surroundings had to offer.
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

That's funny, I actually posted that chart in the musical random chat thread.

I think it's a really interesting chart, but in the end, I don't think it necessarily implies that a rapper with a more diverse vocabulary is better than others with a less diverse vocabulary. However, I do think having a larger vocab definitely helps, eloquence is great whether just in speech or in music, but I don't think it's necessarily required to make good music. That being said, an extremely limited vocabulary can get obnoxious after awhile, e.g. Lil' Jon's vocabulary of essentially three words.

In essence, I think a large vocabulary is nice, but not necessarily the thing that makes a rapper great. There are too many other things in play that make an album great (e.g. flow, the beat, the production).
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As far as addressing whether lyrical diversity makes a good artist, I'd say it certainly goes some ways but is ultimately lower on the list of what makes a good hip-hop artist. Personally, I've never been all that into Aesop Rock, even though he is technically skilled as a rapper and interesting enough. I just can't really enjoy his music too that great of an extent. It's almost like him and the group of rappers he's part of (a certain sect of backpack rap) make an art and religion out of getting as much out of words as possible, which is interesting and totally respectable, but not something I totally love. With all that said, most of the artists towards the bottom I'm not crazy about, so there may be some degree of lyrical diversity playing a roll in that. My favorite rapper of all time is Q-tip, in part due to a love for Tribe Called Quest in general and in part due to a crazy respect for his abilities, and Tribe Called Quest is square in the middle of these rankings. If I was asked what my opinion ultimately was, I'd say lyrical diversity can be important but is not the end all be all of rapping ability.

Also god damn Wu-Tang

ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears

Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away

Nice to see Kool G Rap up there but it's a shame he's not mentioned in the article given how vivid and captivating his lyrics are.

Norman Bates

Gender: Male
Age: 51
Location: Paris, France

This list is extremely disturbing, I think. i don't get the point of it, what is the compiler trying to prove? Is there a point to prove? How ever does he exploit this data? What's to be done with it? It raises more questions than it answers others.

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IrishMusichead wrote:

In my opinion, the diversity of the lyrics all depend on the type of genre. There's different categories that hip-hop can fall under (like conscious, hardcore, gangsta). Normally, if an artist falls under one of these categories they would have to present themselves in a certain way.

Are you suggesting certain Hip Hop artist have to present themselves as less intelligent or less literate? Concious Hip Hop certainly seems to have typically higher ranks, but there's plenty of gansta rap that is equally well-written.

RockyRaccoon wrote:

That's funny, I actually posted that chart in the musical random chat thread.

I saw after I posted this thread and I felt a little guilty, I was hoping it was something that was mostly new to folk. Still, it's a chart that deserves more attention that it got in the Random Chat, I think.

SilverWalrus wrote:

I'd say lyrical diversity can be important but is not the end all be all of rapping ability.

I pretty much agree with everything that you said. I do think Aesop Rock goes out his way to make his music sound more impressive, but his strange lyricism and enunciation is what makes him different and entertaining. Of course, talent certainly comes from how you use those words - Aesop Rock may have an impressive dictionary, but some rappers who are towards the middle of the list are considerably better at really capturing an event or an emotion with their words - Aesop Rock totally lacks that.

Accessibility too - something that's easily heard, understood and felt by the masses I think has vastly more value than something that is technically impressive, and simple, but well chosen words are an effective way to do this.

The comparison to Shakespeare is fun, but I don't think it's fair, there were far fewer words in the 17th century. It also demonstrates further how diverse words aren't always necessary to create something great.

ButterThumbz
I always used to wonder if she wore false ears

Gender: Male
Age: 53
Location: O'er the hills and far away

Norman Bates wrote:

This list is extremely disturbing, I think. i don't get the point of it, what is the compiler trying to prove? Is there a point to prove? How ever does he exploit this data? What's to be done with it?

I don't think it has a point beyond being a bit of fun.

Norman Bates wrote:

It raises more questions than it answers others.

Isn't that a good thing?

alelsupreme
Awful.

Gender: Male
Age: 27

Norman Bates wrote:

This list is extremely disturbing, I think. i don't get the point of it, what is the compiler trying to prove? Is there a point to prove? How ever does he exploit this data? What's to be done with it? It raises more questions than it answers others.

Obvs an industry man seeking to dumb hip hop down so he can make a monopoly on the business. This list was made so he knew what order to kill 'em off in.

(also if this was done without the aid of software then oh god that's scary)
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