science and religion - Politics & Religion

purple

k, continue. science or religion, and why?

CellarDoor
Shoe-Punk Loner

Gender: Male
Age: 38
Location: Marseille

or Obama, and why ?

Laughing

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GARY

I'm not religious personally and don't attend any church. But I have studied the Bible on my own and I find it to be true in what it says. I believe that the Bible is scientific. The only problem I have with modern science is that it's almost always based on the theory of evolution. I used to think that the Bible was just a bunch of fables and even laughed at people who would read it. But as I studied many beliefs and Religions I got to the Bible. So I set out to find all it's flaws so that I could just dispense with it and move on in my quest for the truth and what my purpose was on Earth. Well, it didn't quite go like that. The more I read the more I agreed with what I was reading. No, it wasn't always pretty or what I wanted to hear but I never did, and still haven't, found it's flaw. As far as Obama goes, he told people when he campained that he was a Christian. But if being a Christian was a crime there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict him.
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thomas697

Gender: Male
Location: Melbourne

If God is all knowing and all powerful. Then when I die and he meets up with he will know that he created me to be a skeptic and with his perfect way of creating me I have appeased him. I'm not blasphemous nor do I ridicule people who believe. I'd just say that if god has shown himself to people and that he is 100% real. I will tell him that his disciples did a piss poor job of convincing me and many other people of this fact. And why did Jesus show himself in a part of the world that was illiterate and superstitious?

Why didn't he show himself in China where people can read and write? Why don't the Romans have any documentation of Jesus, they keep good records? "To test my faith"? I highly doubt that.

I went to a catholic school for 12 years and it was at about the third grade that I realized it was all a crock It wasn't like I was trying to rebel, I was an obedient student and constantly got good grades. I saw it as a follow on from the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause, Easter Bunny phenomena. Even Santa knows when you've been bad or good, isn't it funny that there's a certain paranoia to all non existent entities?

The whole idea of the bible is (as I see it) a second rule of laws that aren't moral at all and they weren't intended to be moral. If the consequence of being put to death doesn't scare the people enough then surely the fear of an eternity in hell fire should get them in line.

And then there's the whole created perfectly in gods image. Which is fantastic because that's about the most self indulged thing a single human can say. I haven't read the whole bible in about 5 years so I couldn't quote it anymore. But there is no way I will let anyone teach it to children as a form gospel or all knowing truth, however when I have kids I will have one in the house to read it to them as a form of literature.

Going back to the what if I'm wrong question though. It really doesn't matter if I'm wrong. because an eternity of anything sounds awful.
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HyperBully

Gender: Male
Location: US

GARY wrote:

I'm not religious personally and don't attend any church. But I have studied the Bible on my own and I find it to be true in what it says. I believe that the Bible is scientific. The only problem I have with modern science is that it's almost always based on the theory of evolution. I used to think that the Bible was just a bunch of fables and even laughed at people who would read it. But as I studied many beliefs and Religions I got to the Bible. So I set out to find all it's flaws so that I could just dispense with it and move on in my quest for the truth and what my purpose was on Earth. Well, it didn't quite go like that. The more I read the more I agreed with what I was reading. No, it wasn't always pretty or what I wanted to hear but I never did, and still haven't, found it's flaw. As far as Obama goes, he told people when he campained that he was a Christian. But if being a Christian was a crime there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict him.

So let me get this straight. You don't believe in evolution, but you're also not religious. Yet even though you're not religious, you believe nonsense in the Bible that the Earth is only 6,000 years old? I assume that's what you're saying. And the Bible is scientific, how, exactly? By defying almost everything we've found out in the last few centuries thanks to the wonders of technology and logic? If I'm wrong please correct me, but if you don't believe in evolution and you don't believe the Earth was created by a God in 6 days 6,000 years ago, as you implied you do based on your evolution-bashing and your claims that the Bible is scientific, than where, exactly, do you believe the Earth comes from? Look, I have nothing against Christians or anybody of faith. I'm an agnostic myself, and don't think it's possible to explain everything with faith or even science. I don't think anybody holds all the answers, and anybody who claims they do is either lying or delusional. That being said, what bothers me the most about religion is not the fact that what they believe is (probably) false, it's the fact that many of these people are extremely dedicated to their beliefs and are, quite frankly, dangerous. Sure, there have been plenty of positive benefits to religion, but is it really worth the cost? It's possible to have morals and be a good person without discriminating against entire groups of people or strapping a bomb to your chest, or just being irrationally anti-science and anti-knowledge, for that matter. I'm not saying that every religious person does these things, but many of them do, and I'm afraid that they're coming closer to fulfilling their own apocalyptic prophecies every day. So please, step away from the creationist museum and open up your mind. A good start would be watching the intelligent, enlightening, and hilarious Bill Maher documentary, Religulous. I highly recommend it to anyone who has doubts about religion. Don't hide those doubts, be proud of the fact that you have a rational, open mind.

As for your last sentence, please give me a break. President Obama is more than likely a Christian, and even if he's not, how would that affect his ability to be President? What evidence do you have that he's not a Christian anyway, much less a Muslim, as so many ignorantly claim?

Last edited by HyperBully on 02/08/2011 00:27; edited 2 times in total

GARY

thomas697 wrote:

If God is all knowing and all powerful. Then when I die and he meets up with he will know that he created me to be a skeptic and with his perfect way of creating me I have appeased him. I'm not blasphemous nor do I ridicule people who believe. I'd just say that if god has shown himself to people and that he is 100% real. I will tell him that his disciples did a piss poor job of convincing me and many other people of this fact. And why did Jesus show himself in a part of the world that was illiterate and superstitious?

Why didn't he show himself in China where people can read and write? Why don't the Romans have any documentation of Jesus, they keep good records? "To test my faith"? I highly doubt that.

I went to a catholic school for 12 years and it was at about the third grade that I realized it was all a crock It wasn't like I was trying to rebel, I was an obedient student and constantly got good grades. I saw it as a follow on from the Tooth Fairy, Santa Clause, Easter Bunny phenomena. Even Santa knows when you've been bad or good, isn't it funny that there's a certain paranoia to all non existent entities?

The whole idea of the bible is (as I see it) a second rule of laws that aren't moral at all and they weren't intended to be moral. If the consequence of being put to death doesn't scare the people enough then surely the fear of an eternity in hell fire should get them in line.

And then there's the whole created perfectly in gods image. Which is fantastic because that's about the most self indulged thing a single human can say. I haven't read the whole bible in about 5 years so I couldn't quote it anymore. But there is no way I will let anyone teach it to children as a form gospel or all knowing truth, however when I have kids I will have one in the house to read it to them as a form of literature.

Going back to the what if I'm wrong question though. It really doesn't matter if I'm wrong. because an eternity of anything sounds awful.

You are absolutley correct in what you say Thomas. God does know you are a skeptic. I'm sorry if I came off as passing judgement on your soul or anything. I have no right to do that and am not trying to. I must say I like what you said about eternity of anything sounds awful. I gotta agree with you on that one. Applause

_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

GARY

HyperBully wrote:

GARY wrote:

I'm not religious personally and don't attend any church. But I have studied the Bible on my own and I find it to be true in what it says. I believe that the Bible is scientific. The only problem I have with modern science is that it's almost always based on the theory of evolution. I used to think that the Bible was just a bunch of fables and even laughed at people who would read it. But as I studied many beliefs and Religions I got to the Bible. So I set out to find all it's flaws so that I could just dispense with it and move on in my quest for the truth and what my purpose was on Earth. Well, it didn't quite go like that. The more I read the more I agreed with what I was reading. No, it wasn't always pretty or what I wanted to hear but I never did, and still haven't, found it's flaw. As far as Obama goes, he told people when he campained that he was a Christian. But if being a Christian was a crime there wouldn't be enough evidence to convict him.

So let me get this straight. You don't believe in evolution, but you're also not religious. Yet even though you're not religious, you believe nonsense in the Bible that the Earth is only 6,000 years old? I assume that's what you're saying. And the Bible is scientific, how, exactly? By defying almost everything we've found out in the last few centuries thanks to the wonders of technology and logic? If you don't believe the Earth was created by a God in 6 days 6,000 years ago, as you implied based on your evolution-bashing and your claims that the Bible is scientific, than where, exactly, do you believe the Earth comes from? Look, I have nothing against Christians or anybody of faith. I'm an agnostic myself, and don't think it's possible to explain everything with faith or even science. I don't think anybody holds all the answers, and anybody who claims they do is either lying or delusional. That being said, what bothers me the most about religion is not the fact that what they believe is (probably) false, it's the fact that many of these people are extremely dedicated to their beliefs and are, quite frankly, dangerous. Sure, there have been plenty of positive benefits to religion, but is it really worth the cost? It's possible to have morals and be a good person without discriminating against entire groups of people or strapping a bomb to your chest, or just being irrationally anti-science and anti-knowledge, for that matter. I'm not saying that every religious person does these things, but many of them do, and I'm afraid that they're coming closer to fulfilling their own apocalyptic prophecies every day. So please, step away from the creationist museum and open up your mind. A good start would be watching the intelligent, enlightening, and hilarious Bill Maher documentary, Religulous. I highly recommend it to anyone who has doubts about religion. Don't hide those doubts, be proud of the fact that you have a rational, open mind.

As for your last sentence, please give me a break. President Obama is more than likely a Christian, and even if he's not, how would that affect his ability to be President? What evidence do you have that he's not a Christian anyway, much less a Muslim, as so many ignorantly claim?

I agree with much of what you say. No I'm not religious but I believe in the Bible.And I believe Jesus Christ died for my sins.But yes I'm against organized religion. yes I do believe the Earth was created in 6,000 years because a day to the Lord is as a 1,000 years to man. I do believe that the Earth is much younger than what the scientists are saying. And it sems that none of them can even come close to an agreement on how old the universe is or anything in the universe period. Why do you say Obama is a Christian? Because he said so? Please. But because I think he is not a Christian, no it doesn't mean that would make him a bad leader. It's just another reason why he is in fact a LIAR. I think he would say he's a Buddhist to get re-elected. So would most of the other scumbag politicians of this world.

I agree, we should speak our doubts. We should always be willing to learn and keep an open mind. If it were not so I wouldn't be writing and reading on this site. I could just talk to people that agree with me and I would learn nothing.
_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

purple

I'm going to have to say modern science isn't based on evolution at all, once you get outside ecology and paleontology; and that all sciences fall from physics and math.

Anyway, there are other theories than evolution. What do you think of plate tectonics or atomic theory, GARY? I use these two because of the disparate scales, both of which are difficult to observe: very huge/very slow and very fast/very small. We were talking about this the other day in my philosophy of science class, just thought I would bring it to the board.

And I would also be careful in calling the bible scientific. I don't think anyone can agree with you here, simply because of the semantics. It would be better to call it a source of truth than 'scientific.'

GARY

Plate tectonics is an interesting study. I think that there is much to be learned about the 7 primary and 7 secondary plates. I feel it's an important subject of research due to the fact that it's at the edges of these plates that major earthquakes occur.

I feel quite comfortable in calling the Bible science of scientific. Science is the state of knowing.Knowledge as distinguished from ignorance. Personally I know the Bible is fact and feel that before I did I was ignorant. I might add that Theology is defined as science repeatedly.

As for physics let's see what the 1921 Nobel prize winner in physics has to say.

ALBERT EINSTEIN quotes

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish".
"What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world".
"True religion is real living. Living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness".
"When the solution is simple, God is answering".
_________________
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I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

Johnny Flynn

Gender: Male
Location: California

GARY wrote:

Plate tectonics is an interesting study. I think that there is much to be learned about the 7 primary and 7 secondary plates. I feel it's an important subject of research due to the fact that it's at the edges of these plates that major earthquakes occur.

I feel quite comfortable in calling the Bible science of scientific. Science is the state of knowing.Knowledge as distinguished from ignorance. Personally I know the Bible is fact and feel that before I did I was ignorant. I might add that Theology is defined as science repeatedly.

As for physics let's see what the 1921 Nobel prize winner in physics has to say.

ALBERT EINSTEIN quotes

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish".
"What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world".
"True religion is real living. Living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness".
"When the solution is simple, God is answering".

Einstein also said these:

"the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

"the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions."

"I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking, but by immutable laws."

In my opinion Einstein was a deist at most and probably more thought of God as nature and not the God of the Bible.