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Grzywa
Gender: Male
Location: Polska
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- #111
- Posted: 03/08/2016 19:15
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| RockyRaccoon wrote: |
He was being sarcastic, mostly because every time he, or someone else, happens to say "Hey man, I don't really like the Beatles" he gets attacked for lying and trying too hard to be "artsy" or something. |
@RockyRaccoon, I do get the sarcasm, but please check out this thread, nobody attacked Satie for any reason related to The Beatles (or four insufferably bland musicians, if you like  ). So it's a bit out of place here.
| RockyRaccoon wrote: | | There's no hostility here, or at least, there shouldn't be. |
I absolutely agree there is no real reason for hostility here, but like I said, I don't really care whether there is any. It wouldn't make me stop discussing Beatles or any other artist, even if the entire BEA would shit on me for that.
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland
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- #112
- Posted: 03/08/2016 19:38
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| Grzywa wrote: |
@RockyRaccoon, I do get the sarcasm, but please check out this thread, nobody attacked Satie for any reason related to The Beatles (or four insufferably bland musicians, if you like ). So it's a bit out of place here. |
I think he was more finding the fact that seth felt like he "wasn't allowed" to talk about the Beatles to be crazy, so he made a sardonic comment about it.
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Grzywa
Gender: Male
Location: Polska
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- #113
- Posted: 03/08/2016 19:49
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| RockyRaccoon wrote: | | Grzywa wrote: |
@RockyRaccoon, I do get the sarcasm, but please check out this thread, nobody attacked Satie for any reason related to The Beatles (or four insufferably bland musicians, if you like ). So it's a bit out of place here. |
I think he was more finding the fact that seth felt like he "wasn't allowed" to talk about the Beatles to be crazy, so he made a sardonic comment about it. |
Possibly, but then, claiming that every Beatles fan attacks you for not liking his favourite band sounds equally crazy, like a bad Scaruffi cliché rather than reality.
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Satie
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- #114
- Posted: 03/08/2016 20:45
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| Grzywa wrote: | | Possibly, but then, claiming that every Beatles fan attacks you for not liking his favourite band sounds equally crazy, like a bad Scaruffi cliché rather than reality. |
It's an absurdity to think Beatles talk is prohibited on the forums when they get Album of the Day threads much more frequently than most artists and get positive reception from the vast majority of forum users, regular and non-regular.
It's not an absurdity or conspiratorial to think that Beatles fans are some of the most reactionary music fans in the world when their demigods are challenged given the incredible passive aggression in this thread alleging "hipsterdom," "pretentiousness," etc. for fans of '60s music that isn't the Beatles and their closest relatives in the music world.
But I'm done commenting in this thread. I was optimistic that seth would be one of the more open-minded users on the forum as far as jazz goes since he has so much experience with classical music and has gone on record repeatedly puffing up the importance of jazz to the '50s. Clearly, I was wrong, and once we hit the popular music era in full stride, he has no interest but to re-affirm the canon for pages and pages and accuse those who don't enjoy it of misrepresenting their taste or being dickheads in some way or another.
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Applerill
Autistic Princess <3
Gender: Female
Age: 30
Location: Chicago
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- #115
- Posted: 03/08/2016 21:01
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Saying the Beatles are hated here is like arguing that the top 1% is taxed too much.
Don't. Just don't.
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason
Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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- #116
- Posted: 03/08/2016 21:05
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Did I miss the part where someone said something negative about 60s jazz or that the Beatles are hated on BEA?
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland
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- #117
- Posted: 03/08/2016 21:05
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| meccalecca wrote: | | Did I miss the part where someone said something negative about 60s jazz or that the Beatles are hated on BEA? |
It's like every day man. I'm constantly under assault.
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Satie
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- #118
- Posted: 03/08/2016 21:41
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| meccalecca wrote: | | Did I miss the part where someone said something negative about 60s jazz or that the Beatles are hated on BEA? |
Well, let me count the ways...
| sethmadsen wrote: | | I didn't feel it was let's shit on a saxophone and see what it sounds like. |
| sethmadsen wrote: | | Also just upfront... I very much dislike Jazz that is too free... constantly pushing the boundaries just to push the boundaries... if that makes sense. I also don't like Jazz where soloists are too showy... I fell a good jazz musician lets notes breathe when the time is right. I mean, the soloist can be full blast at times, but all the time, I don't dig. |
| sethmadsen wrote: | | Or is it totally free make noise and there's no "structure" to it. If that's the case, somehow that looses a lot of respect from me. A 4 year old on the piano can do that too... |
| sethmadsen wrote: | | Sometimes I feel the more experimental jazz is... let's just make noise. It doesn't matter if it plays well together. So long as noise is created and it represents emotion or something... it doesn't matter if keys exist or don't exist, it doesn't matter if... blah... it's just too loose to distinguish (from my understanding) the difference of an album that sounds like that and somebody just taking their fist and smashing a guitars fret board, or a key board or just smashing most the notes down on any instrument and then playing it really hard at times and soft at times. |
| sethmadsen wrote: | | Funny, I guess I have this sub conscience aversion to Jazz. |
Are all instances of talking shit about '60s jazz despite, based on the fact that he hadn't even heard Spiritual Unity before I mentioned it, most likely not engaging with very much '60s jazz at all. That last quote makes me think I had you mistaken with someone else who recently said they felt the '50s had a lot of good jazz albums. IDK. Again, my issue is not disliking things once you've heard them or even not wanting to explore them, but the categorical filing of all '60s jazz as bad when you don't even know one of the most well-known records in the genre from that era is the peak of arrogance and ignorance. This has been my historical struggle with BEA - the double whammy of accusations of pretentiousness and showiness on my part with the refusal to engage with genres of music outside of rock before making huge pronouncement about their entire trajectories. I've pointed it out when whatshisface told us all Jamie xx summarized the entirety of 2015 electronic music, and I'm saying it again now - stop saying shit about shit you haven't begun to explore. It results in baser, useless "dialogue" and says more about your small horizons as a listener than it does anything about the music itself.
This is where I (and Rocky, if you wouldn't mind noticing that, as well...) interpreted him as saying that talk of the Beatles is seemingly "not allowed," which we (and others) found patently ridiculous and called out. Just because you've refused to follow the past two pages of discussion doesn't mean it didn't happen:
| sethmadsen wrote: | Ah gotcha. Totally dig we can talk about this... sometimes I feel it's not allowed  . |
And, since I'm sure you've not gone back further, we'll give the third problem I have with this thread, which is the passive-aggressive assertions that people who listen to experimental music do so for some reason other than enjoyment, including a DIRECT ACCUSATION OF SUCH, which seth was kind enough to put in bold for us.
| sethmadsen wrote: | | s I get older I tend to not give a shit. If I like something, I like it. If it connects with my soul, that's all that matters... not what should be rated higher, but what connects with me personally better. |
| sethmadsen wrote: | | Like genuinely liked all of it, not just oh that's unique hipster stuff to say you know. |
| sethmadsen wrote: | | Do you really love atonal and 12-tone music, or is it just unique and interesting and a cool exercise in attempting to discover something new? |
| sethmadsen wrote: | | I am starting to feel the one with Nico was just a bit too pretentious for me. |
Last edited by Satie on 03/08/2016 21:43; edited 1 time in total
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Grzywa
Gender: Male
Location: Polska
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- #119
- Posted: 03/08/2016 21:43
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Now I got lost. And the funny thing is, seth hasn't even replied yet, but the shitstorm's really heavy.
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Grzywa
Gender: Male
Location: Polska
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- #120
- Posted: 03/08/2016 22:24
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| Satie wrote: | | It's an absurdity to think Beatles talk is prohibited on the forums when they get Album of the Day threads much more frequently than most artists and get positive reception from the vast majority of forum users, regular and non-regular. |
I agree it is an absurdity, but I'm not even sure if that's what sethmadsen really meant.
| Satie wrote: | | It's not an absurdity or conspiratorial to think that Beatles fans are some of the most reactionary music fans in the world when their demigods are challenged given the incredible passive aggression in this thread alleging "hipsterdom," "pretentiousness," etc. for fans of '60s music that isn't the Beatles and their closest relatives in the music world. |
One problem I had with Scaruffi's article was that he seemed to regard "Beatles fans" as one huge dark mass of unconscious lemmings, blindfolded and ignorant of any musical acts other than The Beatles.
It is no wonder, then, that I protest whenever I get to hear overgeneralisations like
| Satie wrote: | | every Beatles fan |
or
| RockyRaccoon wrote: | | every time he, or someone else, happens to say "Hey man, I don't really like the Beatles" |
| Satie wrote: | | But I'm done commenting in this thread. |
Too bad. Hope you change your mind, seriously.
| Satie wrote: | | I was optimistic that seth would be one of the more open-minded users on the forum as far as jazz goes since he has so much experience with classical music and has gone on record repeatedly puffing up the importance of jazz to the '50s. Clearly, I was wrong, and once we hit the popular music era in full stride, he has no interest but to re-affirm the canon for pages and pages and accuse those who don't enjoy it of misrepresenting their taste or being dickheads in some way or another. |
I guess he chose to provide full track-by-track descriptions of his Top 100 albums, starting from #1. For me personally, this is a chance to discuss stuff like I never did before, even if this means "re-affirming the cannon".
If he keeps it this way, Ayler is currently at #95 
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