A discovery and re-evaluation of the 1960s - Music Diaries

undefined

I feel like part of the disconnect here is that since Seth gets no emotional response from all the music mentioned here, he assumed that those who "like" the music enjoy it for reasons other than emotional interaction? Like detached intellectual analysis? Seth I can assure you that the vast majority of us who enjoy all this stuff find that enjoyment via the same emotional response circuitry that applies to most any other kind of music and that conceptuals and purely cerebral examinations have very little to do with it

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Satie wrote:

Are all instances of talking shit about '60s jazz despite, based on the fact that he hadn't even heard Spiritual Unity before I mentioned it, most likely not engaging with very much '60s jazz at all.

Ok I got it. I saw the Ayler stuff 4 days ago. I thought there was a full on dismissal of all 60s jazz, and not just avant and free jazz, which I interpreted it as. But despite some of the poor choices of words, I also read what Seth wrote as internal monologue, and wanting to understand it, based on the following quote:

Quote:

If really experimental stuff connects you with humanity and is enjoyable for someone, great, just I don't enjoy it. And then I don't get it either... I'm trying... but I just don't.

So I don't quite see it as an absolute dismissal of all 60s jazz, but I can also see you you might've been frustrated by it.
_________________
http://jonnyleather.com

Satie

meccalecca wrote:

So I don't quite see it as an absolute dismissal of all 60s jazz, but I can also see you you might've been frustrated by it.

Saying that free jazz, made at a time of aesthetic and political renewal on the frontlines of one of the most tumultuous times in Black American history, could be replicated by a four year old banging on a piano is odious fucking garbage. But this kind of kneejerk cynicism about anything elevated above a fucking Beatles song is constant on BEA. I think I was right to initiate a short break from the site. I'm honestly just more and more frustrated coming on here and having the same arguments time and time again with people who won't even make the effort to try these things or understand their history before spewing stupid bullshit.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

I can't even start to respond to everything fully because it's like 10 pages of arguing things that I feel aren't my message at all on my own damn journal...

But first off, my comment had nothing to do with Jazz in the 1960s specifically and everything to do with experimental music (I commented on 12-tone and atonal music which started more at the turn of the century with Schoenberg)... so I don't appreciate you taking that out of context. And that's exactly how I feel when I listen to it... an emotional 4 year old banging on an instrument. THAT'S WHAT I HEAR... I don't attach to it in another way... my questions (not accusations that you keep suggesting I make) about if you like it, were me reaching out to find out why/how/what about it... but somehow that made you angry and refused to respond to my questions.

This recent thread of responses is exactly why I said it's nice to be able to talk to someone about something I love instead of being trashed for it. Instead of Grzywa and I geeking out on a band we both like and me simply stating, hey I was afraid to do this in the regular forums because I feel a lot of people would make negative comments about the Beatles and it's nice we can exchange commentary... it turned into a shit fest of anger.

Also if you read about what I said about Ayler I was thanking the both of you for suggesting it and that it was much more accessible to me... it had structure and meaning to it that I was able to associate with finally. I listened to it and rated it on the same day.

Maybe from here on out I'll keep this personal... as mentioned I was kind of having a monologue with myself, trying to understand music I don't understand and asking real questions (I even commented that I wasn't accusing people of being hipsters and not really liking the music... if I were I'd make that comment, not ask a question. EVERY TIME IT WAS AN HONEST QUESTION.

I appreciate the non-asshole comments and conversations, from everyone. Everyone has contributed to my growth and understanding. I've learned a lot... it's crazy how one sentence can turn into so many pages of anger. It's too bad really because I got all excited that this thread had some comments on it for discussion, and now I'm totally demotivated to continue with the whole human interaction thing... I can do this project on my own.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

meccalecca wrote:

Satie wrote:

Are all instances of talking shit about '60s jazz despite, based on the fact that he hadn't even heard Spiritual Unity before I mentioned it, most likely not engaging with very much '60s jazz at all.

Ok I got it. I saw the Ayler stuff 4 days ago. I thought there was a full on dismissal of all 60s jazz, and not just avant and free jazz, which I interpreted it as. But despite some of the poor choices of words, I also read what Seth wrote as internal monologue, and wanting to understand it, based on the following quote:

Quote:

If really experimental stuff connects you with humanity and is enjoyable for someone, great, just I don't enjoy it. And then I don't get it either... I'm trying... but I just don't.

So I don't quite see it as an absolute dismissal of all 60s jazz, but I can also see you you might've been frustrated by it.

And no, I wasn't dismissing all 60s Jazz... I was trying to understand music that had no form (as I interpret it). This thread is full of my attempt at understanding experimental music and asking questions to start dialgue... and that got interpreted into your an idiot asshole.

Apparently when I say free jazz feels this way to me, I need to say... free jazz I have listened to... otherwise it get's interpreted as ALL FREE JAZZ... which is impossible to know all free jazz... soo... I don't even know.

Last edited by RoundTheBend on 03/09/2016 01:36; edited 1 time in total

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

dividesbyzero wrote:

I feel like part of the disconnect here is that since Seth gets no emotional response from all the music mentioned here, he assumed that those who "like" the music enjoy it for reasons other than emotional interaction? Like detached intellectual analysis? Seth I can assure you that the vast majority of us who enjoy all this stuff find that enjoyment via the same emotional response circuitry that applies to most any other kind of music and that conceptuals and purely cerebral examinations have very little to do with it

Thanks for confirming. And yes, it was a question I had... maybe the love for it is more intellectual than emotional... and thanks for your suggestions on the electronic music. I checked out the one with the lightning and actually liked it.

Applerill
Autistic Princess <3

Gender: Female
Age: 30
Location: Chicago

Is Seth the MNS of jazz?

Romanelli
Bone Swah

Gender: Male
Location: Broomfield, Colorado

Moderator

Quote:

And no, I wasn't dismissing all 60s Jazz... I was trying to understand music that had no form (as I interpret it). This thread is full of my attempt at understanding experimental music and asking questions to start dialgue... and that got interpreted into your an idiot asshole.

Regardless of how you feel about any kind of music...you should never be made to be seen as an asshole for whatever your opinion of it may be. And if you are having a difficult time with any kind of music, you should never be made to feel anything negative about that. Music is different for everybody, and we should not ever expect others to share exactly what we experience. Your music diary should not be about gaining acceptance from others about what you listen to...it should be about sharing your experience with that music, no matter what that experience may be. Positive or negative. Understanding or not. If something strikes you in a different or negative way, that's fine...you have the right to feel that, and you certainly have the right to express that...especially on a forum that is all about what you are experiencing on your journey through music. And if you are trying to understand what you are hearing, you deserve feedback that will help you to get what you are seeking.

I'm a fan of your diary. It feels honest, genuine, and you can feel the love you have for the music you are listening to. So bravo, seth. Keep up the good work.
_________________
May we all get to heaven
'Fore the devil knows we're dead...

RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

I'm just curious on exactly what website are people getting lambasted for saying they like the Beatles, cause it sure isn't this one. And the idea that saying you like the Beatles (or anyone from the rock canon) is somehow not allowed or frowned upon is just wrong. Nobody on this site feels that way.
_________________
2023 Chart

Early Psychedelic Rock

Electronic Chart

Applerill
Autistic Princess <3

Gender: Female
Age: 30
Location: Chicago

RockyRaccoon wrote:

I'm just curious on exactly what website are people getting lambasted for saying they like the Beatles, cause it sure isn't this one. And the idea that saying you like the Beatles (or anyone from the rock canon) is somehow not allowed or frowned upon is just wrong. Nobody on this site feels that way.