Seminal bands - Music - Forums : Best Ever Albums

40footwolf

Gender: Male
Age: 33

hairymarx1 wrote:

itsit wrote:

Also, The Sex Pistols.
Just one gig in Manchester inspired Morissey of The SMiths, Ian Curtis,Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner of Joy Division and Mark E Smith of The Fall. Add in the fact that they were the first Punk band to really break out and the influence of their debut album and I say that makes themr ather damn influential.

I think you overestimate the importance of the Sex Pistols. Their influence is not extensive, nor are they a significant a marker historically as you suggest in the way, for example, the artists I listed are.

First and foremost, Morrissey was influenced by the New York Dolls, as were the Sex Pistols themselves. Mark E Smith was more influenced by the Clash then the Sex Pistols. But of course, his more underlying influences were US garage and proto-punk bands like the Sonics, Monks, MC5 and the Stooges.

As for Joy Division, they were more inspired by Krautrock bands than the Sex Pistols. I mean, Hook's bass-lines are practically from the same page as those from "Negitivland".

So, I'm afraid you are just wrong about that.

Seriously? It's public record that the Sex Pistols inspired Peter Hook and Bernard Summer to form Joy Division and inspired a lot of their ethos. And bands being influenced by other bands is not an indicator that they weren't influenced by the Sex Pistols. You have a habit of committing historical revisionism on bands based entirely on whether you like them or not and it's kind of annoying. I hate the Sex Pistols, personally, but I'm never going to say that they weren't influential.
_________________
I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.

-John Cassavettes

hairymarx1

Gender: Male
Location: London

itsit wrote:

In that list you can put Kraftwerk. WIthout them, no electornic music practically.

It goes without saying that Kraftwerk were highly influential...But they can hardly be described as being influential in terms of anything of significance which was the reason I didn't list them. I mean Abba could be described as being influential to some people, but I hope you are not suggesting that in the wider scheme of things they are in any way significant trailblazers?

I myself don't consider either dance-pop, disco music or the more superficial aspect of industrial music significant, which is why Kraftwerk cannot be put in the same category as other Krautrock pioneers.

Yes, they are important in that they were probably the first to create a futuristic vision utilizing pop music. But more importantly, they were NOT (contrary to the myths) the
first set of musicians to use electronic instruments.

Again, in the overall scheme of things, I think you have overstated their importance.

alelsupreme
Awful.

Gender: Male
Age: 27

I think you're overstating the importance, when it comes to influential musicains I never see Red Krayola and The Pop Group discussed.
Also it's not fair to simply dismiss musical genres like that, I could understand if you wer einsulting crunkcore or anything but In my opinion dance/synthpop and disco produced some pretty badass music. Not all music has to be groundbreaking to be good, I'd take The Human League or Soft Cell over Faust and Captian Beefheart anyday.

hairymarx1

Gender: Male
Location: London

40footwolf wrote:

hairymarx1 wrote:

itsit wrote:

Also, The Sex Pistols.
Just one gig in Manchester inspired Morissey of The SMiths, Ian Curtis,Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner of Joy Division and Mark E Smith of The Fall. Add in the fact that they were the first Punk band to really break out and the influence of their debut album and I say that makes themr ather damn influential.

I think you overestimate the importance of the Sex Pistols. Their influence is not extensive, nor are they a significant a marker historically as you suggest in the way, for example, the artists I listed are.

First and foremost, Morrissey was influenced by the New York Dolls, as were the Sex Pistols themselves. Mark E Smith was more influenced by the Clash then the Sex Pistols. But of course, his more underlying influences were US garage and proto-punk bands like the Sonics, Monks, MC5 and the Stooges.

As for Joy Division, they were more inspired by Krautrock bands than the Sex Pistols. I mean, Hook's bass-lines are practically from the same page as those from "Negitivland".

So, I'm afraid you are just wrong about that.

Seriously? It's public record that the Sex Pistols inspired Peter Hook and Bernard Summer to form Joy Division and inspired a lot of their ethos. And bands being influenced by other bands is not an indicator that they weren't influenced by the Sex Pistols. You have a habit of committing historical revisionism on bands based entirely on whether you like them or not and it's kind of annoying. I hate the Sex Pistols, personally, but I'm never going to say that they weren't influential.

I'm not denying that the Sex Pistols in part inspired them in terms of ethos and to start a band etc... That's not really what I'm talking about. My personal music tastes do not come into it. As it happens, unlike you, I actually like some of their stuff. What I'm arguing is that in the wider scheme of things the influence of joy division, as evidenced in their actual music as opposed to the ethos, is clearly rooted in Krautrock...I mean its as plain as night following day.

The notion that the Sex Pistols were in any way pioneers is simply a joke.

Last edited by hairymarx1 on 07/21/2011 22:18; edited 1 time in total

40footwolf

Gender: Male
Age: 33

hairymarx1 wrote:

40footwolf wrote:

hairymarx1 wrote:

itsit wrote:

Also, The Sex Pistols.
Just one gig in Manchester inspired Morissey of The SMiths, Ian Curtis,Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner of Joy Division and Mark E Smith of The Fall. Add in the fact that they were the first Punk band to really break out and the influence of their debut album and I say that makes themr ather damn influential.

I think you overestimate the importance of the Sex Pistols. Their influence is not extensive, nor are they a significant a marker historically as you suggest in the way, for example, the artists I listed are.

First and foremost, Morrissey was influenced by the New York Dolls, as were the Sex Pistols themselves. Mark E Smith was more influenced by the Clash then the Sex Pistols. But of course, his more underlying influences were US garage and proto-punk bands like the Sonics, Monks, MC5 and the Stooges.

As for Joy Division, they were more inspired by Krautrock bands than the Sex Pistols. I mean, Hook's bass-lines are practically from the same page as those from "Negitivland".

So, I'm afraid you are just wrong about that.

Seriously? It's public record that the Sex Pistols inspired Peter Hook and Bernard Summer to form Joy Division and inspired a lot of their ethos. And bands being influenced by other bands is not an indicator that they weren't influenced by the Sex Pistols. You have a habit of committing historical revisionism on bands based entirely on whether you like them or not and it's kind of annoying. I hate the Sex Pistols, personally, but I'm never going to say that they weren't influential.

I'm not denying that the Sex Pistols in part inspired them in terms of ethos and to start a band etc... That's not really what I'm talking about. My personal music tastes do not come into it. As it happens, unlike you, I actually like some of their stuff. What I'm arguing is that in the wider scheme of things the influence of joy division, as evidenced in their actual music as opposed to the ethos, is clearly rooted in Krautrock...I mean its as plain as night following day.

Maybe that's what you MEANT to say, but what you ACTUALLY said was that the gig did not inspire Morrissey, Mark E. Smith or Joy Division, and at least in the case of Joy Division they absolutely, unequivocally did.
_________________
I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.

-John Cassavettes

40footwolf

Gender: Male
Age: 33

hairymarx1 wrote:

itsit wrote:

In that list you can put Kraftwerk. WIthout them, no electornic music practically.

It goes without saying that Kraftwerk were highly influential...But they can hardly be described as being influential in terms of anything of significance which was the reason I didn't list them. I mean Abba could be described as being influential to some people, but I hope you are not suggesting that in the wider scheme of things they are in any way significant trailblazers?

I myself don't consider either dance-pop, disco music or the more superficial aspect of industrial music significant, which is why Kraftwerk cannot be put in the same category as other Krautrock pioneers.

Yes, they are important in that they were probably the first to create a futuristic vision utilizing pop music. But more importantly, they were NOT (contrary to the myths) the
first set of musicians to use electronic instruments.

Again, in the overall scheme of things, I think you have overstated their importance.

Also, I'm dying to know, what is "anything of significance"?
_________________
I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.

-John Cassavettes

hairymarx1

Gender: Male
Location: London

40footwolf wrote:

hairymarx1 wrote:

40footwolf wrote:

hairymarx1 wrote:

itsit wrote:

Also, The Sex Pistols.
Just one gig in Manchester inspired Morissey of The SMiths, Ian Curtis,Peter Hook and Bernard Sumner of Joy Division and Mark E Smith of The Fall. Add in the fact that they were the first Punk band to really break out and the influence of their debut album and I say that makes themr ather damn influential.

I think you overestimate the importance of the Sex Pistols. Their influence is not extensive, nor are they a significant a marker historically as you suggest in the way, for example, the artists I listed are.

First and foremost, Morrissey was influenced by the New York Dolls, as were the Sex Pistols themselves. Mark E Smith was more influenced by the Clash then the Sex Pistols. But of course, his more underlying influences were US garage and proto-punk bands like the Sonics, Monks, MC5 and the Stooges.

As for Joy Division, they were more inspired by Krautrock bands than the Sex Pistols. I mean, Hook's bass-lines are practically from the same page as those from "Negitivland".

So, I'm afraid you are just wrong about that.

Seriously? It's public record that the Sex Pistols inspired Peter Hook and Bernard Summer to form Joy Division and inspired a lot of their ethos. And bands being influenced by other bands is not an indicator that they weren't influenced by the Sex Pistols. You have a habit of committing historical revisionism on bands based entirely on whether you like them or not and it's kind of annoying. I hate the Sex Pistols, personally, but I'm never going to say that they weren't influential.

I'm not denying that the Sex Pistols in part inspired them in terms of ethos and to start a band etc... That's not really what I'm talking about. My personal music tastes do not come into it. As it happens, unlike you, I actually like some of their stuff. What I'm arguing is that in the wider scheme of things the influence of joy division, as evidenced in their actual music as opposed to the ethos, is clearly rooted in Krautrock...I mean its as plain as night following day.

Maybe that's what you MEANT to say, but what you ACTUALLY said was that the gig did not inspire Morrissey, Mark E. Smith or Joy Division, and at least in the case of Joy Division they absolutely, unequivocally did.

No, I didn't say that...I think you have comprehension problems.

40footwolf

Gender: Male
Age: 33

I think you have a problem admitting when you made a mistake.

Itsit mentions how one Sex Pistols gig influenced a ton of people. You explain how the Sex Pistols had less influence than what Itsit stated. It is absolutely logical to draw from that that you were saying that the gig wasn't significant.
_________________
I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.

-John Cassavettes

hairymarx1

Gender: Male
Location: London

40footwolf wrote:

hairymarx1 wrote:

itsit wrote:

In that list you can put Kraftwerk. WIthout them, no electornic music practically.

It goes without saying that Kraftwerk were highly influential...But they can hardly be described as being influential in terms of anything of significance which was the reason I didn't list them. I mean Abba could be described as being influential to some people, but I hope you are not suggesting that in the wider scheme of things they are in any way significant trailblazers?

I myself don't consider either dance-pop, disco music or the more superficial aspect of industrial music significant, which is why Kraftwerk cannot be put in the same category as other Krautrock pioneers.

Yes, they are important in that they were probably the first to create a futuristic vision utilizing pop music. But more importantly, they were NOT (contrary to the myths) the
first set of musicians to use electronic instruments.

Again, in the overall scheme of things, I think you have overstated their importance.

Also, I'm dying to know, what is "anything of significance"?

In the way for example, that artists like Abba, the Sex Pistols, Madonna, Beatles, PJ Harvey or Pulp etc etc are not.

If you are unable to distinguish between an historically significant artist and an insignificant one, then you really ought not to be contributing to a site like this.

Last edited by hairymarx1 on 07/21/2011 22:32; edited 2 times in total

40footwolf

Gender: Male
Age: 33

hairymarx1 wrote:

40footwolf wrote:

hairymarx1 wrote:

itsit wrote:

In that list you can put Kraftwerk. WIthout them, no electornic music practically.

It goes without saying that Kraftwerk were highly influential...But they can hardly be described as being influential in terms of anything of significance which was the reason I didn't list them. I mean Abba could be described as being influential to some people, but I hope you are not suggesting that in the wider scheme of things they are in any way significant trailblazers?

I myself don't consider either dance-pop, disco music or the more superficial aspect of industrial music significant, which is why Kraftwerk cannot be put in the same category as other Krautrock pioneers.

Yes, they are important in that they were probably the first to create a futuristic vision utilizing pop music. But more importantly, they were NOT (contrary to the myths) the
first set of musicians to use electronic instruments.

Again, in the overall scheme of things, I think you have overstated their importance.

Also, I'm dying to know, what is "anything of significance"?

In the way for example, that artists like Abba, the Sex Pistols, Madonna, Beatles, PJ Harvey or Pulp etc etc are not.

That doesn't really answer my question.
_________________
I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.

-John Cassavettes