EPs on charts - Suggestions - Forums : Best Ever Albums

Xavygravy

Jhereko wrote:

That's a nice speech purple, but I have to vehemently disagree. At least for myself, I am definitely here to celebrate the album as an artform - as a whole piece. I'm not here to celebrate music in just any format (of course we can give it kudos in the forums etc) really if I was I probably wouldn't have joined BEA I could join any old music site. If you look at the 'how did you get here' thread it's pretty clear the majority of people got here via searching for the greatest albums ever not just the best music. There's no way Kid A would be anywhere near as powerful spread across three EP's. I mean the whole point is the journey from 'Everything' to 'Soundtrack' and the whole process. Coincidentally I realised today, If watching a film I'll quite happily pause it if neccecary, but I am really loathed to pause an album (this is obviously a personal note but I think it supports the idea that the album is not just a collection of songs to be skipped forward and backward through at leisure).

I don't have massive problems with EP's (though I'd never put one in one of my own charts) but I think box sets are a massive cop out for people who don't want to make a decision. I mean stuff like 'The Pet Sounds Sessions' is counteractive against the 'Pet Sounds' score just because people want to say they listen to tghe bonus tracks or something. I like harkan's idea of flagging, maybe there could be a vote system and if enough people disagree with the choice and at albummaster's discretion (lest the process is abused) it's removed from the site?

Anyway definitely just want to make it very clear that I am definitely here to celebrate the 'album' and not just music.

I agree that box sets are a massive cop out and should be removed.

And singles/promotional EPs/bootlegs/unofficial albums definitely shouldn't be on here either.

purple

I noticed on the mod info for Burial's Kindred EP there's a comment saying that it will be deleted within 28 days because it's an EP.

Now I know we've had this EP discussion before, and that you (albummaster) don't agree that they should be included on charts, but I think enforcing your beliefs on our charts is ridiculous in this case.

I'm not going to start up the debate again here, but I'll note that there are several EPs which don't have these problems on the site, including Pixies' Come On Pilgrim and several from My Bloody Valentine. This also seems like a slippery slope to not allowing compilations on charts, which is another controversial topic.

I'll also note that if it is deleted from my chart I will simply re-enter it into the system and put it back up each time it's deleted, though it would be more convenient to simply allow EPs on charts.

Hayden

Location: CDMX

purple wrote:

I noticed on the mod info for Burial's Kindred EP there's a comment saying that it will be deleted within 28 days because it's an EP.

Now I know we've had this EP discussion before, and that you (albummaster) don't agree that they should be included on charts, but I think enforcing your beliefs on our charts is ridiculous in this case.

I'm not going to start up the debate again here, but I'll note that there are several EPs which don't have these problems on the site, including Pixies' Come On Pilgrim and several from My Bloody Valentine. This also seems like a slippery slope to not allowing compilations on charts, which is another controversial topic.

I'll also note that if it is deleted from my chart I will simply re-enter it into the system and put it back up each time it's deleted, though it would be more convenient to simply allow EPs on charts.

I need to listen to that. Apparently it's just as good as Untrue.

Let's leave it on the site Cool

RFNAPLES
Level 8

Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA

albummaster wrote:

this is BEA, not BEEP!

I'm not really a fan of EP's being added to the site as they are not albums and don't belong here. However, accepting that they do exist here, I think EP should only be in the title if that is part of the title of the EP.

Agree
_________________
Top 100 Greatest Music Albums by RFNAPLES
Bubbling Under The Top 100 Greatest Mus...y RFNAPLES

19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

If people like an EP so much that they rank it among their favourite albums, then let them.. Why not? Although, if you think they shouldn't contribute to the overall rank, then maybe we should tag them and exclude them from counting towards the overall score (while still letting them be on the user charts). Same going for box-sets and whatnot. I don't want to say compilations, because I feel that there are cases of compilations where they deserve to be on an albums chart.

edit: then if we opt for this, you can make an option in the overall chart, to either show "only albums", or all added releases, including EP's, compilations and others...

Romanelli
Bone Swah

Gender: Male
Location: Broomfield, Colorado

Moderator

19loveless91 wrote:

If people like an EP so much that they rank it among their favourite albums, then let them.. Why not? Although, if you think they shouldn't contribute to the overall rank, then maybe we should tag them and exclude them from counting towards the overall score (while still letting them be on the user charts). Same going for box-sets and whatnot. I don't want to say compilations, because I feel that there are cases of compilations where they deserve to be on an albums chart.

edit: then if we opt for this, you can make an option in the overall chart, to either show "only albums", or all added releases, including EP's, compilations and others...

The problem for me is that some EP's are barely 10 minutes long, making them nothing more than glorified singles. There are some that are just under full album length, and even some that are as long as some full albums. I think it should be a simple question of length: how long should an EP be before it's allowed here. Because it is true...some of them are very short. Should they be considered as albums just because someone wants to put an EP on their chart, even if it clocks in at under 20 minutes?

40footwolf

Gender: Male
Age: 33

Romanelli wrote:

19loveless91 wrote:

If people like an EP so much that they rank it among their favourite albums, then let them.. Why not? Although, if you think they shouldn't contribute to the overall rank, then maybe we should tag them and exclude them from counting towards the overall score (while still letting them be on the user charts). Same going for box-sets and whatnot. I don't want to say compilations, because I feel that there are cases of compilations where they deserve to be on an albums chart.

edit: then if we opt for this, you can make an option in the overall chart, to either show "only albums", or all added releases, including EP's, compilations and others...

The problem for me is that some EP's are barely 10 minutes long, making them nothing more than glorified singles. There are some that are just under full album length, and even some that are as long as some full albums. I think it should be a simple question of length: how long should an EP be before it's allowed here. Because it is true...some of them are very short. Should they be considered as albums just because someone wants to put an EP on their chart, even if it clocks in at under 20 minutes?

It can't be solved by album length either-Circle Jerks' Group Sex is considered a full album and it's less than fifteen minutes long; Portugal. The Man's It's Complicated Being a Wizard clocks in at almost fifty and it's classified as an EP. Besides, that'd be murder on Albummaster, him combing through every EP that gets added and deciding whether or not to keep it based on length.

All I'll say is that Jesu's Silver is 29 minutes of some of the most beautiful music ever made and if it were to be taken off my chart over a technicality that'd be a right shame.
_________________
I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.

-John Cassavettes

19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

Well in this case, Burial's Kindred seems to be about half an hour long, which is as long as plenty of LPs. It is tagged as an "EP", but one could see why somebody would be able to enjoy it on the same level as other (LP) "albums".
And I doubt that many people would put 10 minute EPs on their chart of favourite albums.

albummaster
Janitor

Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

purple wrote:

I noticed on the mod info for Burial's Kindred EP there's a comment saying that it will be deleted within 28 days because it's an EP.

If an album is picked up as suspect is gets 28 days grace to resolve any issues (which is plenty of time).

purple wrote:

Now I know we've had this EP discussion before, and that you (albummaster) don't agree that they should be included on charts, but I think enforcing your beliefs on our charts is ridiculous in this case.

I wouldn't put it quite like that, but if your general point is that no rules should be enforced on the site, I don't quite agree with you as the site would end up in a mess very quickly. The site is concerned with albums, there needs to be something in place to stop charts containing entries that are clearly not albums.

purple wrote:

I'm not going to start up the debate again here,....

Woops!

purple wrote:

but I'll note that there are several EPs which don't have these problems on the site, including Pixies' Come On Pilgrim and several from My Bloody Valentine. This also seems like a slippery slope to not allowing compilations on charts, which is another controversial topic.

personally, I have no problem with compilations.

purple wrote:

I'll also note that if it is deleted from my chart I will simply re-enter it into the system and put it back up each time it's deleted, though it would be more convenient to simply allow EPs on charts.

Doesn't sound like a great way to handle things.

There is a grey line with EPs. According to the rules of the UK Charts, the definition of an album is:

Quote:

A recording counts as an "album" if either it has more than four tracks or lasts more than 25 minutes. Sometimes shorter albums are referred to as "mini-albums" or EPs. Albums such as Tubular Bells, Amarok, Hergest Ridge by Mike Oldfield, and Yes's Close to the Edge, include fewer than four tracks. Other artists such as Pinhead Gunpowder refer to their own releases under 30 minutes to bake as "albums" despite the normal distinction.

Generally, the site is quite lenient, so if an EP is on the borderline, it could still be added (which is why you see some others here). In the case of Kindred, I can see the length is 30:45 even though there are less than four tracks and is titled an EP. I think this one could be allowed since the length is over 25 minutes. If there is a dispute about a particular album, the best place to have the discussion would normally be on the relevant admin page for the album.

Seanzey B Goode

Gender: Male

I don't know, there are some EPs that I like more than some albums, like Gay? and Life of Leisure.