Post subject: Blasphemy! Noel Redding synergy to Jimi Hendrix
You know I've listened to a bit of Jimi Hendrix (in a few different forms) lately, and maybe it was the drugs, but I really think Jimi Hendrix took a decent nose dive after Noel Redding no longer was in the band.
The other thought I had is an uncanny resemblance Nirvana's stuff like Endless Nameless sounds a lot like some of their more experimental work. Which is funny because guitar/music snobs would never see ANY resemblance with the two guitarists/musicians. But I feel the two had a similar "noise"/"experimental"/"avant garde" palette.
Please internet, shoot all my thoughts down and chew them up as your own distortion field of reality! You are my only hope.
In what way do you think he took a nose dive? It’s kind of hard to compare the two periods, when one features three studio albums and the other features one live album and an unfinished studio album.
In what way do you think he took a nose dive? It’s kind of hard to compare the two periods, when one features three studio albums and the other features one live album and an unfinished studio album.
That's true. It also is unfair to base my opinion off things like posthumous releases. In the past many commented on Mitchell being the one bringing synergy. I've read some stuff I'm too lazy to quote, but to the point of songwriting/even guitar playing, Noel seemed to carry more in the band than I initially realized. In addition to that, minus a few songs, I felt like the real explosions came through the work done while he was in the band and it feels like a clear demarcation of when things deteriorated.
But yes you are right, it's a bit unfair to compare given the circumstances, and isn't the only driving factor I'm sure.
Songwriting
Experimentation
Soul
Powerful/emotional playing
honestly some of the tracks I hear have a "we settled" to sound like many others of the time... like a tinge of southern rock can be heard and not in a good way. The soul side of the band changed too.
Now having said all this, there's a few songs that really shine still. But the overall energy, etc. of the band declined drastically.
Post subject: Re: Blasphemy! Noel Redding synergy to Jimi Hendrix
sethmadsen wrote:
You know I've listened to a bit of Jimi Hendrix (in a few different forms) lately, and maybe it was the drugs, but I really think Jimi Hendrix took a decent nose dive after Noel Redding no longer was in the band.
Please internet, shoot all my thoughts down and chew them up as your own distortion field of reality! You are my only hope.
Dude...Noel Redding? He was dropped from the Experience in favor of the far superior Billy Cox, and Hendrix started playing a much more adventurous and complex music that Redding was not suited for at all. And remember that Hendrix picked Redding in the first place because he had a good attitude and GOOD HAIR. Redding also insisted on having junk like this included on Experience releases (held together only by the playing of Hendrix and Mitch Mitchell):
The rest of Redding's career speaks for itself. As for what you hear as deficiencies in the songs released after Redding left?
1) Nothing they did with Redding was experimental in any way compared to pretty much everything he did after he was gone.
2) Redding's impact on Hendrix as a songwriter was pretty much nothing. And Redding's own songs were pretty much the reason he was never a good frontman.
3) Soul? I am not hearing how, in any way, Jimi's white bass player was the anchor of soul in the group...it was Mitchell who provided the jazz beats, Hendrix who provided the soul, and Redding who played the simplest of bass lines in the middle of it all.
4) "We settled"? Remember that much of what you hear of Hendrix post-Experience was either live with a new bassist or material that was released either posthumously completed or unfinished. There were no post-Experience studio albums released while he was alive.
But if you're joking...good one! _________________ May we all get to heaven
'Fore the devil knows we're dead...
I've read some stuff I'm too lazy to quote, but to the point of songwriting/even guitar playing, Noel seemed to carry more in the band than I initially realized.
You don't have to quote anything, but could you be a little more specific? How did Redding contribute to the guitar playing? He only plays guitar on one song, Little Miss Strange, across the three J.H. Experience albums.
Noel Redding's only credited as songwriter on the two songs he famously wrote and sang lead on. I think they're the worst two songs on the three Experience studio albums, though if anyone thinks they have better other candidates, I'd be interested to hear them. The worst part is Little Miss Strange sounds quite a bit like She's So Fine.
Hendrix and Chas Chandler did all the pre-production work on Are You Experienced themselves (U.S. version tracks) without any input from Redding or Mitch Mitchell.
Wikipedia wrote:
When the Experience began studio rehearsals, Hendrix already had the chord sequences and tempos worked out for Mitchell, and [Chas] Chandler would direct Redding's bass parts.
Redding isn't on a majority of Electric Ladyland. Hendrix or guest musicians handled the bulk of the bass playing. Redding's not on 69% of the album. He only plays on one track of the whole second LP!
Redding doesn't appear on 11 of the 16 tracks:
...And the Gods Made Love (duh!)
Have You Ever Been (to Electric Ladyland) [Jimi - bass]
Voodoo Chile (15 minute track; Jack Cassady - bass)
Long Hot Summer Night (Jimi - bass)
Gypsy Eyes (Jimi - bass)
Rainy Day, Dream Away & Still Raining, Still Dreaming (Jimi probably plays bass; since Buddy Miles, not Mitch Mitchell, is the drummer, I'm putting these in the not-Redding column)
1983... (A Merman I Should Turn to Be) [almost 14 minutes; Jimi - bass]
Moon, Turn the Tides...Gently Gently Away (no bass)
House Burning Down (Jimi - bass)
All Along the Watchtower (Dave Mason - bass)
I personally like Band of Gypsys a lot more than Axis: Bold is Love. But if I try to look at them objectively, they're pretty close, perhaps Axis even has a slight edge (though Gypsys has definitely been more influential). Both flawed albums -- it's just to me, the highs on Gypsys are higher than the ones on Axis. But I realize this may be a minority point of view.
There's no doubt that the Experience in 1968 was tighter live than "The New Experience" with Buddy Cox and Mitch Mitchell. But the Experience toured relentlessly while the New Experience was short-lived. If Jimi hadn't died and Cox hadn't been psychologically damaged by a bad acid trip, there's no doubt in my mind that over time they would've become the (consistently) better band. Also Jimi's soloing improved and got more adventurous over time and when the New Experience was clicking, I like them better.
The internet did not disappoint. Thank you so much!
Good points ya'll. Especially about the weed and white people with no soul. (Charles Bradley's bassist... muscle shoals, Carol Kaye and countless others just don't exist I suppose).
Synergy is a word. It usually doesn't mean sole ruler of the universe.
I'd have to disagree with some of them and some of them I do indeed agree with - seriously some good points made - thank you!. But usually when I discuss the points I disagree with that's when the interwebs get less human and I'm seeing few if anyone trying to see where I'm coming from (maybe Jameth and PurpleHazel)
It was in bad taste for dude to say white guys can’t play with soul, but that’s not even really germain to the discussion you’re trying to have. Best not to let it derail the thread.
And it’s not that I necessarily agree with your points about Noel Redding. Billy Cox was a more talented bassist than Redding, and I’m sure his inclusion in the New Experience wasn’t an issue. I think it could be that you prefer the psychedelic pop rock style Hendrix performed with Redding to the R&B/funk influences that came with Cox and Miles. Musicians tend to have all sorts of influences on their bandmates, and I’m sure Redding’s influences in the studio and his other varying creative input differed considerably from Cox’s. It could also be that Cox’s playing was too sophisticated to satisfy the idyllic pop stylings recorded with Redding. Maybe the Beatles wouldn’t have been as good with Moon...Maybe Hendrix’s manager saw it your way, explaining why he sabotaged the Band of Gypsies lineup in an effort to reform the original lineup.
I’m just thinking aloud, because I’m still not quite sure what you’re driving at. Hone your thoughts.
And again, the fact that Hendrix never recorded a proper album with either Cox and Miles or Cox and Mitchell really hurts any chance of a fair comparison.
It was in bad taste for dude to say white guys can’t play with soul, but that’s not even really germain to the discussion you’re trying to have. Best not to let it derail the thread.
And it’s not that I necessarily agree with your points about Noel Redding. Billy Cox was a more talented bassist than Redding, and I’m sure his inclusion in the New Experience wasn’t an issue. I think it could be that you prefer the psychedelic pop rock style Hendrix performed with Redding to the R&B/funk influences that came with Cox and Miles. Musicians tend to have all sorts of influences on their bandmates, and I’m sure Redding’s influences in the studio and his other varying creative input differed considerably from Cox’s. It could also be that Cox’s playing was too sophisticated to satisfy the idyllic pop stylings recorded with Redding. Maybe the Beatles wouldn’t have been as good with Moon...Maybe Hendrix’s manager saw it your way, explaining why he sabotaged the Band of Gypsies lineup in an effort to reform the original lineup.
I’m just thinking aloud, because I’m still not quite sure what you’re driving at. Hone your thoughts.
And again, the fact that Hendrix never recorded a proper album with either Cox and Miles or Cox and Mitchell really hurts any chance of a fair comparison.
Thanks... this type of conversation motivates me to hone my thoughts. I can just put some facts down that lead me to post this (I almost deleted it).
1) Read somewhere he played rhythm guitar on crosstown traffic (I'm finding this to be false?) and perhaps played more of a role in songwriting we give him credit for... if anyone wants to trust liner notes from the 60s... you probably don't realize how wrong they often are... completely dismissing musicians ALL THE TIME.
2) It felt like for a bit before he left he provided some structure to the band that was desperately needed (trying to motivate Jimi to get to the studio).
3) I actually feel like his bass tone is better fitting to the style of music. I feel like Cox's bass tone wasn't even good for your typical soul music. I don't know much about Cox, but I just looked at his "discography" and clearly isn't anything to write home about. Decent point about the pop side of things, but I suppose I'm also talking about his hard rock, but then soulful basslines. I also feel like he played to the more experimental things. I'm saying this on the basis of him being a good bassist (from someone who has played bass for nearly 20 years and typically bass is what I first pay attention to in music).
4) No I don't think Noel was a musical genius and was the true hero of the Experience, rather, ALONG WITH OTHER THINGS, I think he played more of a role than perhaps we typically give him credit for. There are plenty of solid musicians who move on in life and do other things. I feel it's a bit of a logical fallacy to dismiss him.
Anyway for now that's what I remember my experience being... but not saying my experience is a black and white fact. If interested I can develop this hypothesis into something more tangible.
Last edited by RoundTheBend on 06/03/2019 05:37; edited 1 time in total
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
