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Quote:

Besides, it's not like either Mark or that woman are reading this.

Now two women.

Spyglass wrote:

I apologize if this sounds cruel, but the statistic concerning 1 out of every 4-5 women in the EU being sexually harrassed seems unrealistic. That's practically a Sodom and Gomorrah situation.

According to the NSVRC - 18.3% of women have been raped at some point in their lives in the US. It's not really hard to believe.

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And if you're struggling to believe it I really recommend taking a look at Missoula: Rape and the Justice System in a College Town by Jon Krakeur. Not my favorite writer, he inserts himself in a lot, but he dispels a lot of fallacies well.

Spyglass
Resident Metalhead

Gender: Male
Location: The red dot on the map

That's an interesting statistic. But if so many women are struggling to come out publicly, how are the NSVRC able to reach that statistic?

Keep in mind, I'm not saying rape doesn't exist or that most accusers are liars. I'm just saying that the statistic seems like it needs to be rechecked.
_________________
Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

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Spyglass wrote:

That's an interesting statistic. But if so many women are struggling to come out publicly, how are the NSVRC able to reach that statistic?

This is an interesting question! Even the NSVRC has admitted it is a difficult thing to ascertain. However, if anything this would result in the reported statistic actually being lower than the amount it currently is. If you just accounted for reported rape to law enforcement agencies, that statistic only falls to 1 in 6 (still almost 17%)! Here's a paper for you on this. https://vawnet.org/material/understandi...statistics

19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

Spyglass wrote:

I apologize if this sounds cruel, but the statistic concerning 1 out of every 4-5 women in the EU being sexually harrassed seems unrealistic. That's practically a Sodom and Gomorrah situation.

If we're talking sexual harrassment in a broader sense than just rape (e.g. grabbing ass, sending dick pics, inappropriate sexual advances, etc.), then I assure you, 20% is a ridiculously low estimate. I'd even say most women would be able to tell you about an experience like that.

Spyglass
Resident Metalhead

Gender: Male
Location: The red dot on the map

19loveless91 wrote:

If we're talking sexual harrassment in a broader sense than just rape (e.g. grabbing ass, sending dick pics, inappropriate sexual advances, etc.), then I assure you, 20% is a ridiculously low estimate. I'd even say most women would be able to tell you about an experience like that.

I can get behind this. Most of my previous arguments are about rape itself, which is a different story.

The thing is, I myself have fallen victim to an accusation. It was raw luck that cops never showed up at my door. Ex-girlfriend, apparently caught in serious lies before. It didn't help her case that she changed details on her twitter posts. Razz

And if you haven't seen it, check out The Thin Blue Line. It's an incredible documentary about how false accusations nearly sent an innocent man to the chair.
_________________
Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

Spyglass
Resident Metalhead

Gender: Male
Location: The red dot on the map

NewsFromHome wrote:

Spyglass wrote:

That's an interesting statistic. But if so many women are struggling to come out publicly, how are the NSVRC able to reach that statistic?

This is an interesting question! Even the NSVRC has admitted it is a difficult thing to ascertain. However, if anything this would result in the reported statistic actually being lower than the amount it currently is. If you just accounted for reported rape to law enforcement agencies, that statistic only falls to 1 in 6 (still almost 17%)! Here's a paper for you on this. https://vawnet.org/material/understandi...statistics

Maybe, but if I were involved in statistics, the first people I would check out would be the ones we could confirm were involved in the corresponding situation, so those who haven't would be the harder ones to check out. Either way, checking out the whole population is practically impossible, so the seesaw could teeter either way. the population that the NSVRC haven't checked could either have a higher or lower percentage on its own. But I'll check out that paper when I'm in the mood.
_________________
Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

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Spyglass wrote:

Maybe, but if I were involved in statistics, the first people I would check out would be the ones we could confirm were involved in the corresponding situation, so those who haven't would be the harder ones to check out. Either way, checking out the whole population is practically impossible, so the seesaw could teeter either way. the population that the NSVRC haven't checked could either have a higher or lower percentage on its own. But I'll check out that paper when I'm in the mood.

Yes Spy, checking the lives and stories of a whole population is practically impossible. Hence why psephology exists (the science of polls!). That’s why, in this case, statisticians have tried many different types of models to collect this data and they’ve all gotten similar results (all with reported margins of error). And yes the “seesaw” can teeter either way, but what I’m saying is AT MINIMUM the number is 17% because that’s the rate of reported and verified rape cases to law enforcement agencies. You haven’t even read the paper yet and you’re already picking holes. That’s cynical and anti intellectual AT BEST. You’re being obstinate here with the stubbornness of a flat earther but I don’t want to bully you spy.

I empathize with you. Ask yourself, does this unwillingness to acknowledge easily verifiable data come from the trauma that you faced?

I’ve had good friends in my life that have undergone similar situations. Most were guilty, a few, were not. But you know, the best men of those that weren't didn’t disappear into MRA skepticism. They embraced their past and became committed to learning about rape culture, learning the statistics and became invested in dispelling these fallacies. And when they did so, they became happier, more socially responsible, and just better people to know. It’s difficult to have a failing relationship be put in the court of public opinion but you can’t let that type of trauma harden you away from truths and make you skeptical or at worst, cruel. Love yourself mate.

Spyglass
Resident Metalhead

Gender: Male
Location: The red dot on the map

OK, I stopped at flat-earther. You know, I was going to read the paper, but now I don't want to. You're the cynical one if you think insulting me is going to convince me I'm wrong. I only raised the issue as a possibility.

Get this through your head: I AM OPEN TO ALL POSSIBILITIES. You're not, and you just proved it by insulting me the way you did. You're on a music website. You should know by now that opening yourself to new possibilities is the only way to learn as much as you can. That's why I was going to read your paper, but you can forget it now. I was having fun with our adult conversation until you acted like a kid and said that. You owe me an apology.
_________________
Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

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real "*tips fedora* nice try kiddo" energy to trying to extend empathy to you. I guess we just morally disagree.