The problem with live extreme punk

[Spyglass]

I adore grindcore and I'm getting into noisecore. Noisy production can make a punk album so much better, but it can also hurt it. There's a difference between a DIY aesthetic being properly placed such as it is done with many punk albums, and even indie albums like Bee Thousand which might be the best example, since it was written to sound like a Beatles bootleg. I'm also a big fan of Steve Albini and his work with Big Black (only two fucking albums). But being noisy for noisiness' sake doesn't always work out. With some albums like, say 2nd LP by thrashcore band Dropdead (who have a new album out this Friday), that style of production works perfectly. Let me surprise you by saying that I think 2nd LP is flawless and is better than most of Radiohead's catalogue and many Beatles albums.

I'm listening to Sete Star Sept's live album Live in Baltimore 2011, and I can barely tell what the fuck is going on. It all sounds like a guy screaming into white noise. Now I liked some of their works, but this doesn't sound like music at all. I like bursts of energy, but when I turn on a music album I want it to sound like music. The aesthetic isn't a total loss. Any extreme punk fan should get some enjoyment out of the production since it sounds completely vile and evil, and one can't deny that the drummer does a, ahem, bang up job. But it gets in the way of hearing a song a lot of the time. Live punk albums by obscure punk bands won't get the high-value production that live albums typically get, so albums like this will usually sound really dirty. Ironically, punk is supposed to be about being free to do what you want regardless of things like pop structure, studio quality, etc. You'd think an extreme punk sound with a fixation on noisiness would be a perfect trope for cheap live recordings. Unfortunately, that gives the style a chance to overdo the noisiness.

Sete Star Sept are an act that I've liked and hated at different times. I'm going to give this EP half a star because the atmosphere did sound very evil and violent. But that's the only thing I enjoyed about this album. Shame. I would love to see noisecore being treated with a more exploratory vision in this world. I personally believe that there's a lot that noisecore is capable of.
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Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

[RoundTheBend]

I agree - it's like spicy food. I love spicy food.

But if it so spicy I can't breathe or can't feel my mouth, well then what's the point?

[Spyglass]

[mickilennial]

[Spyglass]

Don't get the wrong idea. I listen to noisy grindy hardcore albums all the time. But too much is too much, especially for anything built on extremes.
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Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

[RoundTheBend]

[Spyglass]

Although I'm against using words like "stupidity" when debating personal opinions, I agree with every remaining poing Roundthebend made. Gowi's statement can apply to any music no matter how horrible, including Dot Dot Curve. I've spent years adjusting my palate for the sake of discovery, but I've always made the effort not to allow my critical judgment to suffer for it. If it was entirely a matter of adjustment, wouldn't that render the concept of a rating system meaningless, especially in relevance to the lower ratings?

Take my views compared to Skinny's for an example. He has an undeniable sense of taste stemming from his diversified chart, but I feel very sorry for him that he doesn't like Queen, especially when seeing one album in his top 10 that I found only slightly better than the average modern soul album, a Thundercat album. To me, Thundercat's whole catalog is dominated effortlessly by the entire catalog of D'Angelo, so it's possible that I have something to gain by adjusting my views to further learn something from Skinny's views . The difference between our situation and this live album is that Skinny's chart proves that he's pretty well learned in the music department, and Sete Star Sept are no different than any other noisecore act. As a result there's no difference between this live EP and a dozen other EP's just like it that I've heard.

So the idea of Gowi's post isn't "stupidity," but it neglects a key element: a low rating can be as justifiable as a high rating.
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Do it yourself and let me play my music: https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=61802

[NewsFromHome]

I mean the thing is it isn't just an equipment and money boundary but also a venue boundary. Most live punk bands I've ever engineered tapes for can only really afford to play in harsh sounding concrete warehouses where the venue has mics for a kick, a snare and if I'm lucky a tom clip or two. I can't make the cymbals sound like they're not bleeding from every corner without even the slightest bit of padding. Most mixing tools can't save that type of harshness. I mean you're right Round, it's inherently overpeppered - but what are you supposed to do when you can't even talk about the possibility of affording a better sautee pan that doesn't heat properly, much less compound butter, herbs, spices, etc. ?

[RoundTheBend]

oh quick clarity... cuz now I feel bad.

I find Gowi incredibly intelligent. Not commenting she's being stupid at all. That somehow got conflated with: Eating a jar of pepper would be a stupid thing to do - just to "experience it" or "adjust your palette".

Also I fucking love rough cuts of music played in basements/factories/shitty scenarios. My favorite Foo Fighters music is from this really really crappy recording of a Late! Pocketwatch stuff I got off the interwebs in the early 2000s. It sounds really rough and harsh, but I love it.

I just think music that is intentionally shitting in someone's ear drums to be edgy... is the stupidity I'm talking about... It might be best for me to find something to clarify the points being made of "well made" harsh music and then music that is just grating to the point of annoyance... and no I won't blow torch my tongue or eat shit to "adjust my palette". That's the part I'm talking about that is stupidity.

Enjoying some habanero poppers though *wrapped in bacon* is the freaking shit (just an example of something hot that can be an acquired taste, but is absolutely perfectly designed). Or the subtle taste differences in different sashimi, which requires a more refined palette. Or wines and liquors or meads, etc. Mmmm... dark harsh bitter chocolates.

But you will have to argue... a lot... to help me convince me that the taste of the hottest peppers on the planet are a refined palette experience. Actually it's the opposite - it kinda destroys your palette, you can't feel anything, and while it might give you a delirium of otherworldly experiences due to the pain you'll go through to endure it... it will never, ever, ever be an enjoyable taste... not even with some good schadenfreude. It will be unique experience... that I will agree with.

Like this - I find kind of creative and while I wouldn't want to eat a jar of it, it's at least a bit intriguing. It's kinda like a habanero popper... you might have 2-6 but probably won't eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

https://open.spotify.com/track/7wBQBB43...hZY59-OJEQ

I can't really find something so grating right now that it's just like, really, this is just someone shitting on you, not any interesting creativity beyond the shitting.

[NewsFromHome]