Sight and Sound 2022 Poll Results - Movies & TV

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Hayden wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

I'm not sure if I would go as far to say as it "de-legitimizes" and/or invalidates the rest of the list, but it certainly does seem like a pretty awkward #1,

Not gonna lie— reading your comments first, I was kinda hoping it was Paddington 2.

That would've been truly epic! Or The Room! Laughing

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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Bach wrote:

The directors top 100 is way better than the critics list.

In the critics list there is nothing from Bunuel, Malick, Herzog, Pasolini, Cronenberg, Almodovar... and of course nothing from Polanski and Woody Allen. And only one film from Bergman, Antonioni and Welles.
But we have Jordan Peele and Celine Sciamma! A big meh.

I share some of your sentiment Bach. It's unfortunate (based solely on cinematic artistry, not personal lives) that Polanski and Allen, one clearly among the greatest horror/suspense/psych thriller directors of all time, the other one of the greatest comedic/Rom-com director's ever, shouldn't have a single film represented (especially above others in the same or similar genres that did). Welles' Touch of Evil is, imo, the very biggest omission. I would also say Gilliam's Brazil, Werckmeister Harmonies, Tarkovsky's Nostalghia, even Zulawksi's Possession -- but none of those were staples before this iteration (and Touch of Evil was already) so those not making the top 100 is much more forgivable. For Touch of Evil, perhaps the increased difficulty in seeing the remastered (Welles Memo edit, from Walter Murch) version has contributed to its fall this time around. I still scratch my head about Brazil not making the top 50 or so in these S and S lists. It seems like it would be a prime selection given its content and creativity, how relevant it still feels, how "new" and visionary it still looks, its fusion of, say, Fellini's 8 1/2, the camera work of Welles' Touch of Evil (and Welles/Kafka's The Trial), a touch of the mad comedy of Dr Strangelove, and a touch of Lang's Metropolis, and Chaplin's Modern Times -- but all brought forward into a style that seems very fresh and vibrantly alive and new and Gilliam's own, despite the influences. But alas, much more often than not, films tend to get on by Directors who are in utmost critical favor (as a whole) and Gilliam is perceived as perhaps too inconsistent to receive such whole-hearted and retrospective acclaim (yet?).
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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

CA Dreamin wrote:

Among modern movies, I thought There Will Blood and Tree of Life had a reasonable chances. They're both highly respected among critics and directors.

Anyway, to Bach's point about so many highly-regarded directors not getting a single film, but we have Jordan Peele and Celine Sciamma...

Peele and Sciamma have a consensus pick. And they provide greater women and minority representation, which was the goal with this edition. As for Bunuel, Malick, Herzog, Pasolini, Cronenberg, Almodovar, Polanski and Woody Allen...if you asked a sample of critics and directors their favorites by these filmmakers, you may get several different answers. It's important to remember the critics and directors are only allowed to submit a Top 10, so I reckon there aren't consensus choices for these directors to crack enough Top 10s. However that also means a fair number of participants put Get Out and Portrait of a Lady on Fire in their all-time Top 10s.

True, good point CA. It is very tough to pick one for a small group of ten for any of those. Polanski was probably split between RB and Chinatown, and maybe some for Replusion. Woody Allen between Manhattan, Annie Hall, etc. Malick between Badlands, Days of Heaven, Tree of Life and probably some for The New World even. Good grief when it comes to Bunuel! Who knows for Cronenberg, Almodovar... And so on... And not so with Peele (so far) and others that made it above them and have fewer "consensus" picks. That's probably a bigger factor here than I was thinking with before your comment. I was also a bit surprised Tree of Life and There Will Be Blood weren't among the newer set of films to get onto the 100. But, some are going to miss out now matter how you slice it. At this point, 100 is a pretty small sample size for an art form that has been producing worthy films for the list since the 1920s (roughly 100 years).
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Hayden

AfterHours wrote:

Nice, haven't seen that one.

You probably know this (or not, dunno), but the director— Larisa Shepitko— was married to Elem Klimov (dir. Come And See), and I think a lot of leftover ideas from The Ascent may have trickled into his film (Shepitko died a few years before Come And See was released). I also imagine her death amplified the bleakness of Come And See.

If you ever get around to it, make sure you watch it in winter. (Also, note— you should get around to it).

I'll reply to the rest of your post later today, gotta run.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Hayden wrote:

You probably know this (or not, dunno), but the director— Larisa Shepitko— was married to Elem Klimov (dir. Come And See), and I think a lot of leftover ideas from The Ascent may have trickled into his film (Shepitko died a few years before Come And See was released). I also imagine her death amplified the bleakness of Come And See.

If you ever get around to it, make sure you watch it in winter. (Also, note— you should get around to it).

I'll reply to the rest of your post later today, gotta run.

Thank you, I didn't know that. Come and See has been on my "Greatest Films" list for at least a decade (even as high as top 20 or so at one point), so I really can't believe I had never heard of The Ascent before you brought it up!
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Bach

Gender: Male
Location: Italy

CA Dreamin wrote:

Peele and Sciamma have a consensus pick. And they provide greater women and minority representation, which was the goal with this edition. As for Bunuel, Malick, Herzog, Pasolini, Cronenberg, Almodovar, Polanski and Woody Allen...if you asked a sample of critics and directors their favorites by these filmmakers, you may get several different answers. It's important to remember the critics and directors are only allowed to submit a Top 10, so I reckon there aren't consensus choices for these directors to crack enough Top 10s.

AfterHours wrote:

It is very tough to pick one for a small group of ten for any of those. Polanski was probably split between RB and Chinatown, and maybe some for Replusion. Woody Allen between Manhattan, Annie Hall, etc. Malick between Badlands, Days of Heaven, Tree of Life and probably some for The New World even. Good grief when it comes to Bunuel!

But in the Directors list there are films from Polanski, Bunuel and Pasolini. And, thankfully, no Peele and Sciamma.
It seems that the directors chose better.
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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Bach wrote:

But in the Directors list there are films from Polanski, Bunuel and Pasolini. And, thankfully, no Peele and Sciamma.
It seems that the directors chose better.

True, and I agree that the Director's list is better. I do like Peele though, and Get Out is his best work so far. I'm not especially opposed to it being in the top 100 except that it got in above several as or more deserving films that were left out -- including incredible masterpieces like Touch of Evil that were pushed out despite being in the top 100 for decades ... Also Godfather Part 2???? Maybe that is the single most surprising one that fell out of the top 100 that had been there for decades before. The only reasonable explanation being that, with all the newbies needing to also get their due, there just wasn't enough room for any more Coppola's. Coppola fans probably just felt a bit forced to keep Apocalypse Now and/or Godfather Part 1, and with the new influx, lacked the room for Part 2, especially with the limitation of having only 10 slots. Choosing only 10 is both a blessing and a curse: the positive is that it (hopefully) forces the voter to only choose the very best (and hopefully not some other criteria). And so only the most ideal choices tend to rise to the top of the poll results (now that statement seems not as true as it used to be, but that's just my opinion of this years results). The negative is that it tends to force certain directors to only get one or two films in (especially now, as the field continues to expand) even where they would otherwise have more than that (like Hitchcock, Welles, Coppola, Scorsese, Kubrick...). I think somewhere around 40 would be a better number, even if others might complain that this is "too much". I think most people could get the bulk of their most representative, ideal "best" selections in with 40 selections, whereas 10 forces too many to be left out and leads to things like "1 per director" or "1 per decade" or "as many countries/genres/genders etc, as possible" even when this might not be the case, or as much of a necessary focus, if truly choosing their "best" with more selections available. I also think the overall results would end up being more accurate, by which I mean: "more truly representative of what these set of voters think are the very best films". There are certain films that a much higher percentage of veteran critics/cinephiles/film buffs would choose in a selection of 40, but maybe would leave out more often if only among 10 (due to restrictive-type reasoning given in the previous sentence). This could change the vote and also potentially make it much harder to skew the results by having a group of people push a certain agenda into the poll, or even push a single candidate (because they're "tired of seeing Citizen Kane at the top" ... or Vertigo ... etc). I think 40 (or similar) would make it a very very close race between films like Citizen Kane, Vertigo, 2001 -- films that so many lovers of cinema (especially directors and critics that have invested so much time and attention to it) would include in a ballot of that size, but maybe leave out a bit more when only trying to represent 10 with those restrictions in mind. I also think it would help if there was some sort of ranking, maybe 1-10 get 4 points, 11-20 get 3 points, 21-30 get 2 points, 31-40 get 1 point (or something like this). This would also make it harder to mess with the results through agendas and what-not. I think it would be good too, for S & S to specifically encourage voters to "vote for the films they truly feel are the best they've ever seen as we want this list to be as accurate a representation of such as possible" (or similar statement). This wouldn't inhibit all from basing their selections on other reasons, but it would probably help, and it still leaves "what you truly feel are the best" to a subjective choice, so it's not skewing anything, just laying a general foundation of what the selections are (or should be) based on.
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Hayden

AfterHours wrote:

Thank you, I didn't know that. Come and See has been on my "Greatest Films" list for at least a decade (even as high as top 20 or so at one point), so I really can't believe I had never heard of The Ascent before you brought it up!

Not going to lie, little surprised you haven't. Shepitko and Tarkovsky were close, and the film even won Berlin's Golden Bear (+in Criterion Collection, Top 100 on Letterboxd, etc) Anatoly Solonitsyn has a supporting role in The Ascent as well. Considering the Ukraine/Russia war at the moment, it might have a surge in viewership the next while (Shepitko was Ukrainian, and the film is 90% about surviving a Nazi invasion mid-winter). It's a harrowing work. You truly get lost in it— feels real.

Quote:

Yeah, it's one I haven't seen before so it intrigues me too.

You gotta see this one too Razz

(But, please, do not watch Denis' latest, no matter it won the Grand Prix Rolling Eyes

*cough* because of Lindon *cough*)
Some of the best cinematography of the 90s.

Quote:

I might actually like yours a little more in terms of the pics, though I do like all the quotes S and S provides, and I'm glad to see many new ones this time (for old stalwarts like Kane and Vertigo for instance).

And thanks Smile

— unfortunately, (and I have 0 clue why), high-quality film stills in jpg format are becoming harder to come by... everything is a webp all of a sudden. Every once in a while there's a shot I really want to use and just... don't feel like the rigamarole of converting/reuploading/etc. But I try my best Razz

As far as quotes, maybe I should have done that for the 80s list... I did it for the 90s list I think.

Quote:

For sure! Nice, I'll consider checking it out myself! Are you doing a 70's poll soon-ish then?

Yeah, it'll be in the works. Some point in 2023. (Maybe Spring?)

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Hayden wrote:

Not going to lie, little surprised you haven't. Shepitko and Tarkovsky were close, and the film even won Berlin's Golden Bear (+in Criterion Collection, Top 100 on Letterboxd, etc) Anatoly Solonitsyn has a supporting role in The Ascent as well. Considering the Ukraine/Russia war at the moment, it might have a surge in viewership the next while (Shepitko was Ukrainian, and the film is 90% about surviving a Nazi invasion mid-winter). It's a harrowing work. You truly get lost in it— feels real.

Quote:

Yeah, it's one I haven't seen before so it intrigues me too.

You gotta see this one too Razz

(But, please, do not watch Denis' latest, no matter it won the Grand Prix Rolling Eyes

*cough* because of Lindon *cough*)
Some of the best cinematography of the 90s.

Quote:

I might actually like yours a little more in terms of the pics, though I do like all the quotes S and S provides, and I'm glad to see many new ones this time (for old stalwarts like Kane and Vertigo for instance).

And thanks Smile

— unfortunately, (and I have 0 clue why), high-quality film stills in jpg format are becoming harder to come by... everything is a webp all of a sudden. Every once in a while there's a shot I really want to use and just... don't feel like the rigamarole of converting/reuploading/etc. But I try my best Razz

As far as quotes, maybe I should have done that for the 80s list... I did it for the 90s list I think.

Quote:

For sure! Nice, I'll consider checking it out myself! Are you doing a 70's poll soon-ish then?

Yeah, it'll be in the works. Some point in 2023. (Maybe Spring?)

Thanks Hayden, I'll try and get around to The Ascent and a few others from the S & S list that I haven't seen in the upcoming days/weeks. I haven't seen Black Girl, for instance, and am watching that today. Perhaps the Ascent and/or a revisit of Jeanne Dielman next, or the Denis one, or soon anyway.

Looking forward to the 70s poll. Spring works for me. Earlier is fine too.
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Hayden

AfterHours wrote:

I haven't seen Black Girl, for instance, and am watching that today.

I'd go on a limb and say Black Girl is where African cinema started. Staplepiece. It's a slow burn, and definitely not everyone's pace, but it has this very raw kick within the silences. Cinematography's also like nothing before it.

Sembène's filmography should be on everyone's radar— Camp de Thiaroye is particularly underrated (probably his best), but Mandabi and Moolaadé are also very good works. Not quite sure why Xala is his most popular... I think it's his weakest effort by a lot.

And yeah, I should be able to figure out a time when the 70s poll works. In the meantime, never hurts to get a head start on some watches/rewatches.