philosophy of music

[purple]

I'm taking a philosophy of music course this semester; I thought it would be fun to share the topics I discuss in class with the forums and see if any meaningful discussion can actually come out of it.

[Bork]

Looking forward to it.

[purple]

Understanding Music

What does it mean to listen to music with understanding?

sample subquestions:
What does it mean when we say the music expresses emotion?
What does it mean when we say music moves (i.e. up, down, forward, stagnant)?


One argument used to describe the way in which we hear emotion in music is the metaphoricists':
(1) only sentient creatures can have and express emotions
(2) music is non-sentient
(3) so music cannot have and express emotions
(4) yet, despite realizing the truth of (1)-(3) we still say things like "the music is sad" when referring to purely instrumental pieces
(5) so these emotional attributions must be metaphoric rather than literal

someone who takes this stance would say that musical movement doesn't happen because musical space doesn't necessarily exist. When we attribute the words up, down, sad, happy to music it is always metaphorical. To think of it in another way, think of it like this: someone can hold a tragic mask up to their face to express sadness readily, but how could wood express sadness except metaphorically?

There are two key objections to the popular view above.

(1) That polysemy (the cross-language linguistic phenomenon in which a word has many closely-related meanings) frees us from metaphor. Or, that there is a familiar use of the words in which they are not used to refer to a literal movement or felt emotion e.g. a person with a sad figure.

someone who takes this literal stance would say that music literally moves up and down, and can express emotions, as well as that music can only be talked about in spatial terms (up, down).

(2) That dead metaphors free us from metaphor. Or, that in our ancestral past humans used crude vocabulary to describe the phenomenon of music and used spatial words to describe musical movement metaphorically; these words have become so engrained in our species that it is no longer metaphor to refer to a musical note as higher than the other, i.e. they are dead metaphors. This argument also believes musical terms could be described by any set of terms, spatial or not, and believes we do: i.e. C, G, A instead of high, higher, highest, something like that

someone who takes this stance would say that music does not literally move up and down, or literally express emotion, but does so in a secondary sense i.e. it is not an objective, intrinsic quality (i.e. primary e.g. mass) of the music but an objective, perceived quality (i.e. secondary e.g. color) of music (metaphors would be subjective qualities i.e. tertiary e.g. seeing a face in a cloud)


there's a synopsis of some arguments concerning the understanding of music; feel free to comment, take a stance, ask questions, etc...

[Bork]

To understand this I need to ask a question. Are the qualities of music purely culturally learned or has it ever been shown that those qualities are the same in all cultures over all time?

An example: We can talk about music as being sad or happy because of the notes that are used. Although there are plenty exceptions, both in how songs are structured and how some people perceive them, in general (and simplified) songs in a minor key are sad and songs in a Major key are happy.

Does this perception hold true across all cultures and all time, or is it just a perception we have been taught to have? Does someone who have never heard a piece of music before (but otherwise have lived a normal life) instantly have that same perception?

[Hayden]

I'd go crazy in that class It'd be crazy frustrating.

Sounds interesting though, and you covered some interesting topics. Most of them are about mood & emotion in music though.

So, when it comes down to it, it's 'what sounds happy' and 'what sounds sad', and why it sounds like that.

Imo, lower frequencies sounds more depressing than higher frequencies, and the higher db a song has also attributes to how 'happy' it sounds.

But, past the instrumentals, the lyrics are also a dead giveaway sometimes. Joy Divisions' Closer would be an amazing topic for this course. How it can even be dance-y at times, but still ridiculously depressing....

Are you also studying the physics of why music sounds happy or sad? That'd be a great conversation
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[paladisiac]

Music itself is non-sentient but was created by sentients (people) and is an expression of sentience. It's that expression itself that conveys ideas and emotion. It's the relationship between those ideas and the listener which give music its emotion. It's a sentient relationship, not conveyed by interpersonal communication, but through the impersonal medium of music. That medium is made personal / emotional by the listener's life experiences.
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fav artists NOW | ALL-TIME favs | i listen 2 more music than u so u don't have 2!

[Kiki]

Ridicule everything. Trust nothing. Rip up the mantras and put on the music.

[Jackwc]

[40footwolf]

I don't have much of a mind for academia so I'd feel foolish contributing to the conversation, but I'll gladly sit back and watch other people's discussions. This is fascinating stuff.
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I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.

-John Cassavettes

[purple]