Is it fair to rank albums? - Music - Forums : Best Ever Albums

Guest

So I'm somewhat of a movie buff, as well. I'm not quite as devoted to collecting movies as I am to collecting music, but I still really appreciate the art form and have even taken it upon myself to rank my 10 favorite movies (going much beyond that is a little too much work). However, I've always found that ranking movies, much like ranking music, is really difficult for me. Take my chart, for example. I have A Night at the Opera and Superunknown at the #1 and #2 positions, respectively, and I doubt they'll be moving any time soon. However, I have a handful of albums (namely Nevermind, Abbey Road, Toxicity, and Rated R) that have been cycled through the #3 position a handful of times, and to be perfectly honest I doubt I'll ever make up my mind for sure. So why is this?

Well, I was talking to a friend of mine who also considers himself a movie buff, and he presented an interesting thought: It's true that some movies deserve to be considered true masterpieces while others definitely do not, but instead of ranking the masterpieces on how good they are, shouldn't we look at it more as a grand feast of cinema in which every movie has its own distinct flavor and contributes to the overall experience in its own way? I mean, is it really possible to compare such classics as Godfather, Terminator, Silence of the Lambs, etc., when they're all so accomplished in such different ways? And the same can be said for music. I can't decide which album belongs in the #3 position on my chart because Nevermind, Abbey Road, Toxicity, and Rated R are all outstanding albums and my collection would be equally incomplete if any of them were to be removed from it.

Of course, I do still try to rank them because I like the thought of an ordered top 100, but I still find the idea interesting. Thoughts?

Romanelli
Bone Swah

Gender: Male
Location: Broomfield, Colorado

Moderator

swedenman wrote:

So I'm somewhat of a movie buff, as well. I'm not quite as devoted to collecting movies as I am to collecting music, but I still really appreciate the art form and have even taken it upon myself to rank my 10 favorite movies (going much beyond that is a little too much work). However, I've always found that ranking movies, much like ranking music, is really difficult for me. Take my chart, for example. I have A Night at the Opera and Superunknown at the #1 and #2 positions, respectively, and I doubt they'll be moving any time soon. However, I have a handful of albums (namely Nevermind, Abbey Road, Toxicity, and Rated R) that have been cycled through the #3 position a handful of times, and to be perfectly honest I doubt I'll ever make up my mind for sure. So why is this?

Well, I was talking to a friend of mine who also considers himself a movie buff, and he presented an interesting thought: It's true that some movies deserve to be considered true masterpieces while others definitely do not, but instead of ranking the masterpieces on how good they are, shouldn't we look at it more as a grand feast of cinema in which every movie has its own distinct flavor and contributes to the overall experience in its own way? I mean, is it really possible to compare such classics as Godfather, Terminator, Silence of the Lambs, etc., when they're all so accomplished in such different ways? And the same can be said for music. I can't decide which album belongs in the #3 position on my chart because Nevermind, Abbey Road, Toxicity, and Rated R are all outstanding albums and my collection would be equally incomplete if any of them were to be removed from it.

Of course, I do still try to rank them because I like the thought of an ordered top 100, but I still find the idea interesting. Thoughts?

What if The Godfather is simply too long and boring for your tastes, and you decide (using your own individual mind) that it is, to you, NOT a classic film? What if I see Superunknown at #2 on your chart and wonder what in the world you may be thinking for having that on your chart at all because I hate it? My point is that if you asked 100 people if they would consider those three films as among the greatest of all time, I can pretty much guarantee that at least one person would disagree...just as you would never get a 100% consensus on just your top TWO albums...much less be able to say what your #3 should be.

Someone is going to stand up and say that Weekend At Bernies 2 is among the greatest films of all time...or that Justin Beiber's latest is a true classic of recorded music. It's easy to say, "Let's just consider all of the classics as one great body of cinematic excellence"...but who gets to decide what those films (or albums) are for the rest of us?

If it were easy to determine that, all music would sound the same, and there would be only one movie. And none of this would be any fun at all.

Robert Anton Wilson
Epic Proghead

Gender: Male
Age: 56
Location: Inside

There is ultimate rank and then there is rank order. You seem to have a tie at number 3 for your albums but it seems clear to you that it is one of those album which fills your number 3 spot. I think it happens often. Maybe one day something will happen that will make you be sure and maybe not. I know for me I have had my top 3 favorite movies set in stone for years but all tied because whichever is top is a question of timing. My top 3 movies are Apocalypse Now, 2001 & The Godfather. When I feel science fiction this usually push 2001 to the top, when the Doors released their 40th anniversary boxset that pushed Apocalypse to number 1 because of the role the Doors music plays in this movie. While my actual order cannot be set, my rank-order is, these are my top 3 movies.

Like you say, there are so many different styles and so many different reasons for putting music on that the idea of one album being the ultimate answer every time is ludicrous. That is why on my list you have such diverse artists as Radiohead, Miles Davis, Philip Glass and INXS ... sure INXS aren't as "objectively" talented as Miles but when the crowd comes in they seem to be more appropriate to put in.

Guest

Romanelli wrote:

What if The Godfather is simply too long and boring for your tastes, and you decide (using your own individual mind) that it is, to you, NOT a classic film? What if I see Superunknown at #2 on your chart and wonder what in the world you may be thinking for having that on your chart at all because I hate it? My point is that if you asked 100 people if they would consider those three films as among the greatest of all time, I can pretty much guarantee that at least one person would disagree...just as you would never get a 100% consensus on just your top TWO albums...much less be able to say what your #3 should be.

Someone is going to stand up and say that Weekend At Bernies 2 is among the greatest films of all time...or that Justin Beiber's latest is a true classic of recorded music. It's easy to say, "Let's just consider all of the classics as one great body of cinematic excellence"...but who gets to decide what those films (or albums) are for the rest of us?

If it were easy to determine that, all music would sound the same, and there would be only one movie. And none of this would be any fun at all.

Well no, I'm not trying to say that those 3 movies are the best of all time and they just can't be ordered. I'm saying that to someone who considers them all fundamentally perfect movies, is it fair to rank them when they all excel in such different regards, or should we just acknowledge that they are all incredible and they each contribute to an extraordinary overall cinematic experience?

cartoken
The Seer

Gender: Male
Age: 39
Location: Paris

This is why I use a mathematical formula to rank albums and not just by my overall feeling for an album. And i'm quite satisfied with the result even if it can never be perfect.

Guest

cartoken wrote:

This is why I use a mathematical formula to rank albums and not just by my overall feeling for an album. And i'm quite satisfied with the result even if it can never be perfect.

Just out of curiosity, what is your mathematical formula? I've been trying to come up with one for myself but have yet to come up with a good one.

Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

Is ranking albums fair? Maybe not, but it sure is fun. That said, I do sometimes have a problem with the rankings. Lately, I've gotten to thinking of my chart not as a ranking, but a list of 100 great(est) albums. And it keeps changing. For example, Thriller used to be in my top 5 on my chart. Well, whaddaya know, it isn't even on my chart anymore. And a long time ago, I might've thought that people were crazy to think that any album which wasn't Revolver could be THE greatest album ever. Now that title belongs to Highway 61 Revisited. I also used to think that Trout Mask Replica was the best Magic Band record. Now Doc At The Radar Station is my fave (by a tiny margin, though).

gussteivi

Eggman/Walrus/Taxman wrote:

Is ranking albums fair? Maybe not, but it sure is fun. That said, I do sometimes have a problem with the rankings. Lately, I've gotten to thinking of my chart not as a ranking, but a list of 100 great(est) albums. And it keeps changing. For example, Thriller used to be in my top 5 on my chart. Well, whaddaya know, it isn't even on my chart anymore. And a long time ago, I might've thought that people were crazy to think that any album which wasn't Revolver could be THE greatest album ever. Now that title belongs to Highway 61 Revisited. I also used to think that Trout Mask Replica was the best Magic Band record. Now Doc At The Radar Station is my fave (by a tiny margin, though).

I think it's really cool that you do that, Eggman.

Too many people have a "fix" top 10 or 20 that they refuse to compromise with. It's like they're afraid it might disturb the "holy balance" of their chart to introduce/replace a single album in the top.
Not to mention they might have written some comment on it they're really happy with.

I'm as guilty as anyone perhaps, but I did introduce an artist to my top ten that a month ago I barely had heard about, let alone heard.

But no one's touching Romanelli on this. He's changing his chart every day! Surprised

Romanelli
Bone Swah

Gender: Male
Location: Broomfield, Colorado

Moderator

gussteivi wrote:

Eggman/Walrus/Taxman wrote:

Is ranking albums fair? Maybe not, but it sure is fun. That said, I do sometimes have a problem with the rankings. Lately, I've gotten to thinking of my chart not as a ranking, but a list of 100 great(est) albums. And it keeps changing. For example, Thriller used to be in my top 5 on my chart. Well, whaddaya know, it isn't even on my chart anymore. And a long time ago, I might've thought that people were crazy to think that any album which wasn't Revolver could be THE greatest album ever. Now that title belongs to Highway 61 Revisited. I also used to think that Trout Mask Replica was the best Magic Band record. Now Doc At The Radar Station is my fave (by a tiny margin, though).

I think it's really cool that you do that, Eggman.

Too many people have a "fix" top 10 or 20 that they refuse to compromise with. It's like they're afraid it might disturb the "holy balance" of their chart to introduce/replace a single album in the top.
Not to mention they might have written some comment on it they're really happy with.

I'm as guilty as anyone perhaps, but I did introduce an artist to my top ten that a month ago I barely had heard about, let alone heard.

But no one's touching Romanelli on this. He's changing his chart every day! Surprised

Ha! Didn't think anyone noticed that!!!!

cartoken
The Seer

Gender: Male
Age: 39
Location: Paris

swedenman wrote:

cartoken wrote:

This is why I use a mathematical formula to rank albums and not just by my overall feeling for an album. And i'm quite satisfied with the result even if it can never be perfect.

Just out of curiosity, what is your mathematical formula? I've been trying to come up with one for myself but have yet to come up with a good one.

I'm taking 3 things in consideration in my formula:
1. The overall score of the album (an addition of points of all songs) around 35% of the final score. Here of course the more tracks there is the greater the score will be.

2. The average rating of the album, about 50% of the final score. Here the number of tracks is not important

3. My overall impression of the album , around 15% of the final score. This is the purely subjective score, of how I feel about the album.

About the songs, to keep it simple, I have a 4 scale rating system:
- 0: will never listen to it again (0 pts)
- 1: Nice (1pt)
- 2:good (2 pts)
- 3:excellent (4pts).

So this is in a nutshell the overall idea, to get to the final score there's a simple calculation to do. Hope it's a clear Razz