Why Aren't Bootlegs Allowed Here? - Suggestions

JMan

I added Apocalyptic Proportions to my list, and it's about to be deleted. I found out by looking at the moderation history that bootlegs aren't allowed on this site. But why? There are great albums that are bootlegs. It's like leaving an album out if it's a live album: we just shouldn't do it. It's also similar to stereotyping musical releases. An album's an album, and we should not deny the existence of gems or at least decent gems such as Apocalyptic Proportions just because they never got released.

Also, I'd like to bring back the "Mark Albums as Live, Soundtrack, Bootleg, EP, etc." discussion.

Last edited by JMan on 07/10/2013 00:48; edited 1 time in total

Kool Keith Sweat

JMan wrote:

I added Apocalyptic Proportions to my list, and it's about to be deleted. I found out by looking at the moderation history that bootlegs aren't allowed on this site. But why? There are great albums that are bootlegs. It's like leaving an album out if it's a live album: we just shouldn't do it. It's also similar, IMO, to racial indifference, only for music. An album's an album, and we should not deny the existence of gems or at least decent gems such as Apocalyptic Proportions just because they never got released.

Also, I'd like to bring back the "Mark Albums as Live, Soundtrack, Bootleg, EP, etc." discussion.

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Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh

Gender: Male
Location: Washington

JMan wrote:

It's like leaving an album out if it's a live album: we just shouldn't do it. It's also similar, IMO, to racial indifference, only for music. An album's an album, and we should not deny the existence of gems or at least decent gems such as Apocalyptic Proportions just because they never got released.

LOL @ the bold. As for the other thing, who's to say what's a decent gem and what's not so decent? I don't think we should allow bootlegs.

Where do we stand on EPs again? I've noticed some EPs have made their way onto the site.
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JMan

Jasonconfused wrote:

LOL @ the bold. As for the other thing, who's to say what's a decent gem and what's not so decent? I don't think we should allow bootlegs.

Where do we stand on EPs again? I've noticed some EPs have made their way onto the site.

A: That's like asking "Who's to say if an album is good or not?" People are to say what's good or not. I'm a person, I think AP is a 4-star album. Other people could think other bootlegs are pretty good.

B: EP's can be allowed if they are more than 20 minutes long. In fact, any album on the site CANNOT be less than 20 minutes. AP is 44.5.

C: @PATMAN below me: I don't think AP is all that questionable since the first 30 Google results when you type Soundgarden Apocalyptic Proportions" are for downloading it.

Last edited by JMan on 07/10/2013 00:47; edited 1 time in total

Patman360
Serenity Now

Gender: Male
Age: 31
Location: Cork, Ireland

Moderator

Bootlegs aren't official releases, therefore making the legality of them questionable. Granted some artists have since released these bootlegs as official, Bob Dylan's bootleg series for example, however the above mentioned Soundgarden album is not an officially released bootleg (To the best of my knowledge). The site only deals with officially released albums I think, otherwise all sorts of illegitimate questionable albums could end up being added to the sites database.
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gtroda

The simple answer to the question is because the rules say they aren't allowed. But I will hazard a guess as to why...

In general, bootlegs are not sanctioned by the artists themselves. They do not reflect a product that the artist has chosen to represent themselves by. The artists also receive no royalties from bootleg sales. Not to mention the recording and distributing of most bootlegs are technically illegal in many parts of the world. I think that all these reasons are contrary to the main purpose of the site which is to find the "best ever album".

There is also a practicality issue in the fact that there are an enormous amount of bootlegs out there. I would venture that there are more bootlegs available than actual commercially released material. This is certainly true of some jam bands (Grateful Dead, Dave Matthews Band, Phish, etc.) that allow audience members to tape every concert they've ever held. The sheer volume of data for these would probably overwhelm the site. And there is also a fact checking/reliability issue with these.

As mentioned above, there are some artists (Bob Dylan, Pearl Jam, Allman Brothers, etc.) that have released "official bootlegs". Some of these have made their way on the site. I believe these are different because they are officially released by the artists and therefore constitute a legitimate album.

Personally, I have a very large bootleg collection from years of tape trading and downloading from bands who sanction recording of their concerts and radio shows. I could make a very large and detailed bootleg chart if they were allowed. But I still don't think they should be allowed at this time.

Happymeal

Jasonconfused wrote:

Where do we stand on EPs again? I've noticed some EPs have made their way onto the site.

EPs (as far as my understanding goes) are allowed depending on the length.

albummaster
Janitor

Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

Patman360 wrote:

Bootlegs aren't official releases, therefore making the legality of them questionable. Granted some artists have since released these bootlegs as official, Bob Dylan's bootleg series for example, however the above mentioned Soundgarden album is not an officially released bootleg (To the best of my knowledge). The site only deals with officially released albums I think, otherwise all sorts of illegitimate questionable albums could end up being added to the sites database.

this.

Regards EPs, they need to be 20 minutes or over, or contain at least 5 tracks (slightly more lenient than the common definition of an album which stipulates 25 minutes). If any albums on BEA are breaking these rules, it's only because they haven't been reported/flagged yet (they shouldn't be here).

cattlest

Gender: Male
Age: 42

there's plenty of good regular albums on here that aren't as of yet represented. I'm not clamoring to add Outcesticide or Fractal Zoom to my chart.
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EyeKanFly
Head Bear Master/Galactic Emperor

Age: 33
Location: Gotham

Authorized bootlegs seem fine (Bob Dylan), but "bootleg" usually refers to unauthorized material or material the artist doesn't know about/doesn't want released. So for that reason, I don't think (unauthorized) bootlegs should be included on BEA.

That being said, what makes an "official" release? Is a band putting up an album on bandcamp official? (I'm not implying I believe one way or another, I'm legitimately asking; I really don't know the answer to this).
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