BEA Interview #4 : meccalecca

[GeevyDallas]

GeevyDallas: I'll get all the boring shit out of the first, again thanks for doing this. Could you just tell us a bit about yourself, where you grew up? where you live now? first memory/ experience with music? Ohhh and is your name actually Jonny Leather?

meccalecca: Yeah, I had the luxury of being born with a rock & roll name. My parents named me Jonathan Leather, but around the time I was 11 or 12 I made the switch to Jonny Leather. I grew up in a small suburb of New York City called Walden, but not the Walden of Thoreau's novel. My parents owned every Beatles album on vinyl and my two older brothers were also becoming Beatles-obsessed, so my earliest memories were soundtracked by Abbey Road, Revolver, Rubber Soul, etc. While it's hard to recall anything too specific from the age, I strongly remember "Revolution #9" giving me nightmares when I was really young. Something about hypnotic repetition of #9 injected itself into my subconscious

GeevyDallas: Yeah that's creepy as fuck, I just listened to it there again I guess having Beatles obsessed parents is a good way to ground you in your musical journey, what were some of the first bands you discovered yourself? Did they have a big impact on your taste now? and how do you feel about them now?

meccalecca: Having considerably older brothers, I was being hand fed new music on a pretty regular basis. They were basically guiding my listening. First came the classic rock. A mix tape my brother Jason made for me led to obsession with Pink Floyd, Queen and Zeppelin, along with the odd solo career of Syd Barrett. I think I was in 3rd grade at the time. Around '91, another mix tape from Jason introduced me to Mr Bungle and Faith No More. It's amazing my parents let me listen to Mr Bungle at that age. On long car rides, I'd pop in that cassette. God knows what they were thinking.

In what must have been early 1994, I was watching the Ben Stiller show on MTV. Following the show was the world premiere of Green Day's "Longview" video. At 11 years old, this video hit me like a ton of bricks. Green Day seemed like the coolest band on the planet, and unlike pretty much every band I had loved up until that point, I felt like I had discovered them on my own. So, I became an instant Green Day superfan. Naturally, the whole pop punk explosion led me to stuff like Rancid, Pennywise, Bad Religion, NoFX and eventually classic 70s and 80s punk. The politics and youthful energy were inspiring, and helped carry me through high school.

Somewhere towards the end of high school, all of that pop punk grew tiring. I think I had outgrown it. And I've never really returned to it since then. The whole Napster revolution had begun and I took advantage of it. I would spend long nights online downloading music by Radiohead, The Cure, Modest Mouse, Elliot Smith, The Smiths, The Pixies and countless other bands that my brothers had introduced to me years earlier, but I never had the money to purchase their music on my own. Download speeds were awful. I must've waited at least 5 hours for a terrible quality mp3 of Radiohead's "Killer Cars" to download, but it was worth it.

GeevyDallas: Wow, they were my first real discovery too, would have never for one second had you down as a Green Day fan. I know you’re heavily involved in music and I’d like to get to that later, but is there any album where you listened and it sealed it for you, that made you decide to get so involved?

meccalecca: Yeah. It's funny to look back at my old love for Green Day. I guess when I was that young bright colors, a bit of angst and songs about masturbation really amused me.

My direct involvement in music was a pretty slow process, but I think it all goes back to my oldest brother, Chris. He was 9 years older than me, and went to college for Graphic Design. While he was studying, he began playing in bands and designing posters and album art. It seemed like the coolest thing in the world to me, so I wanted to follow in his footsteps and become a great album cover designer. So, when I was old enough I headed to college to become the next Storm Thorgerson. Little did I know, the digital age would essentially kill the demand for album designers.

While I was in college, living in NYC, I started going out regularly to concerts. I was also studying photography at the time, so I decided to bring my camera to shows. This became rather obsessive, and I started turning my focus more to music photography than graphic design. The combination of those passions allowed me to land an internship at CMJ Magazine, and so began my career within the music world.

GeevyDallas: That must have been a crazy time. I’ve always wanted to know about New York through the eyes of a new yorker, listening at home in my room in Ireland to acts like The Strokes, VU, Nas, etc. they seemed steeped in my idea of what New York is, the sounds, the atmosphere, the attitude. Is that something that you see too, or is there an even deeper understanding of the music from there?

meccalecca: Great question. That's one of the most interesting things about living in New York. It's a huge city, mixing an endless collection of different cultures, and yet listening to certain artists you can predict that they're from New York.

It's a huge, intimidating city. Surrounded by so many people, and confronted with the shadows of skyscrapers, there's an undeniable feeling of claustrophobia that I think all New Yorkers eventually must come to terms with. The first three Velvet Underground albums capture that. The entire discographies of Sonic Youth and Swans feel like they could only be the work of New York bands working through the more suffocating aspects of NYC.

Similarly, a lot of New York hip hop hits with a directness that's hard to find anywhere else. New Yorkers don't usually beat around the bush. We'll just tell you how it is.

For the most part, I feel like New York music has a common thread of tension, dissonance, grit, noise. It's a reflection of our environment, which can sometimes be a pretty dark and threatening place. It's rare to come across a relaxed folk singer from here.

GeevyDallas: Yeah I agree, new York is unique in that aspect, in my eyes only London has a notable sound engrained in it's music in the same way. Strange in that sense considering they're probably two of the most ethnically and culturally diverse places in the western world. As a New York label head, do you ever try and tap into that distinct sound? Or what do you go look for when recruiting bands for your label? Do they have to have a certain characteristic? Or do you treat it like a fan, where if it clicks it clicks? I guess now would be a good time to say when, where and why you set up mecca lecca records too.

meccalecca: Between the years 2005 and 2010, I was photographing and writing for publications more and more regularly. While many of the concerts I was going to were well known artists, I was also spending a healthy amount of time in tiny clubs watching totally unknown bands. A handful of them were exceptionally talented but seeing very little exposure.

At some point in 2008, I had the selfish idea to have a birthday party at which a bunch of my favorite local bands would play. As the idea developed and I booked bands, I felt guilty about having the focus on me, so we made the concert a benefit for Jiamini (a charity that my friends ran that helped provide funding for children's education in Tanzania). Raising money for a worthy cause while seeing some of my favorite bands was a really powerful experience, so I continued organizing small charity concerts, mostly for local organizations such as animal shelters. The series ran semi-monthly for roughly 2-1/2 years, and led me to build bonds with a lot of great young bands. Most of those bands have been totally forgotten, but The Drums, Hooray For Earth, Zambri, Caveman, Army Navy, and Sky Larkin are a few more notable bands I booked in those years.

During those years, I began using Mecca Lecca as the name of my concert promotional "company." By late 2010, having seen so many great bands I knew fall flat attempting to self-release their records, I made the decision to launch a record label collective, Mecca Lecca. Chicago trio Unicycle Loves You and folk singer Christopher Paul Stelling were probably the first two artists on board with the idea, so I felt like I had a good thing coming along. Both were only in the early stages of writing their next records, so I had nothing really set to release anytime soon. Then I received an email from Howth. The band was preparing to release their debut record and mailing it to various music writers in desperate hope for attention. I was floored by the album. Carl Creighton's words and voice hit me on a deep emotional level. I wanted to make this album the first Mecca Lecca release, so I met up with the band and we made it happen. From that point on it snowballed. I didn't want to go the Captured Tracks route and have a bunch of bands who all sounded the same. That's boring. I just wanted to release music by bands whose music I loved, and were fun to work with. None of us had any money. We have just scraped together whatever we can to put the albums out. But by uniting under one umbrella, it has given the bands chances they might not have if self-releasing.

GeevyDallas: Wow that's sick that you booked The Drums, they're definitely on of the best bands i've seen live. I'll get back to your acts signed to the label in a bit, just wanted to ask you about the concerts you set up and ran. Having built a loyal following with the gigs( I'm assuming it wasn't just you on your own watching the bands play for 2 and a half years ), and having been at what I can only imagine as hundreds of gigs between your first ever gig you attended and the first gig you organised, what was the set up for the gigs? I'm sure initially you left it as simple as possible, but after time did you change the set up, the venue, soundsystem, lighting etc. to enhance the gig going experience? Or was it simply about giving the band their time to shine? or did certain bands ever bring anything unique that you thought was brilliant, redundant, or simply terrible? Sorry for bombarding you with qs.

meccalecca: I think in my lifetime I've seen a few thousands live performances. I think I was out to show 5 nights a week for a couple years straight. From dingy basements and house shows to Radio City Music Hall and big festivals, I feel like I've seen an endless sea of possibilities. For the shows I set up, I unfortunately had an extremely limited budget and worked with a variety of Brooklyn and Manhattan venues with their own unique atmospheres. As someone who studied art and knows a lot of fine artists, I always wanted to build unique installations for the performance spaces, but there's a lot of challenge in that when you're doing one-off shows. And reckless drunk music fans have a tendency of breaking things.

So to actually answer the question, I let the bands do their own thing. Depreciation Guild and Royal Forest were 2 that stood out by having really incredible video projections.

My future wife and I have been thinking a lot of moving to a much smaller city in need of a good music venue and starting our own. We would probably go crazy building up the interior to have a lot of atmosphere. I think a lot of people undervalue the importance of that. I've been to a lot of venues with no character, and it makes it a lot less enticing to return.

GeevyDallas: Yeah I guess having those restraints allows the bands to shine, which is always a good thing. I definitely agree, the venue can make or break a gig/night/festival/etc. Too many times i’ve been to gigs in places that seem almost sterile, no matter how good the act, it just doesn’t seem right. That’s such a cool idea to bring a venue to a place in need of it, creating a hub so to speak for local musicians that was absent beforehand, what would be your ‘mantra’ or set of principles if such a place came into existence? Or is it all a pipe dream atm?

meccalecca: Right now it feels somewhere between pipe dream and totally realistic. It's a difficult undertaking, and the one problem with opening a new venue in a city in need one is that I have to want to live there, and I'll need to research why they aren't any. Santa Fe, NM is a city I'm actually considering. My girlfriend lived there for 5 years, and went to school with the guys from Beirut, so she's somewhat familiar with the city and its music situation. It's a small artsy city but doesn't really have any dedicated venues, but rather some places bands occasionally play.

One of the most important things I see in starting a good venue is building strong relationships with the artists who play there. I know that sounds really obvious, but there are so many venues here that no band wants to return to after playing once. A lot of that has to due with effortless booking. The venue playing 4 very random bands on a lineup, having nothing in common musically. Then a low turnout = not getting paid anything, even if the bar did well. Most of the DIY venues here in Brooklyn have a really friendly community vibe. Bands don't feel like they're being ripped off, because the guys who run the spaces are incredibly humble and honest. That's exactly the vibe I'd love to establish.

I don't really have much interest bringing in top dollar established touring acts. I still have a fondness for helping the underdog. Touring is an extremely tough thing for a small band. Even a band getting high profile press on Pitchfork may be playing a completely empty or unfriendly room while on tour in an unfamiliar city.

GeevyDallas: That sounds awesome, hopefully it'll be somewhere to stop off if i'm ever in the area Going back to some of the acts signed to Mecca Lecca, my favourites being Right On Dynamite and Unicycle Loves You(that spotify playlist was great btw), both have a strong indie pop vibe, Joshua McCormack with a jazzier feel, and Christopher Paul Stelling with a strong folk sound, do you ever feel that your label is without an identity so to speak? I know you said you wanted to have a diverse roster, but is there anything that defines what it is to be a Mecca Lecca artist?

meccalecca: Thanks! Yeah, I've definitely felt like I'm still looking for an identity for the label, but I guess that's pretty much a metaphor for my entire life. In high school, I was the loner who got along with the jocks, punks goths, nerds and pretty much anyone, but at the same time it left me without a direct identity. I'd love to have a slightly more universal sound to define Mecca Lecca, but I don't know what it would be, especially with artists like these. For example, Howth's debut album was a hazy, personal DIY folk album with heavy Paul Simon and Daniel Johnston influence. The album they're currently working on is an epic Pink Floyd/Eno-influenced Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles concept album with very serious emotional weight. I guess I've always embraced unpredictability and variation. Even when I was booking shows, I'd never book all shoegaze bands. That'd be horribly boring. Some artists seem to write the same songs over and over, but I think one thing Mecca Lecca artists have in common is that desire to always be creating something new.

GeevyDallas: I get you, I guess that's one way you have been able to stay in love with music so to speak. Having all your acts constantly evolving, sending you new and interesting ideas is much better i'd imagine, than having to wade through an hours of the same thing. On that note has being involved so heavily in music changed how you see/experience music, or tainted your enjoyment? I seen an interview with El-P in which he said he'd never run a label again no matter how much he was paid, do you ever get that feeling? Do you plan on keeping the label going indefinitely?

meccalecca: I totally feel El-P. Starting a record label was my dream at a point in my life, so in that regard I'm really happy that I did it. But it's extremely exhausting, and hardly a sustainable business. I have a pretty serious day job, so while I don't have to support myself financially with the label, I am feeling more and more drained at the end of the days. In 2011, I think I was far more motivated, and because of it I released a bunch of records. I ran publicity for the bulk of those releases and that side of things can be really disappointing. You feel like you have something writers would really enjoy hearing and they totally ignore you, even when they've run your photos in the past. Observing things as close as I have for the last 5-10 years, and having many friends who work within the music industry, it's been really disheartening. You begin to see why certain bands get signed or written about, and a lot of the time it has little to do with the music. But I'm not throwing in the towel yet. I'm just trying to focus more on a small number of artists. Howth, Christopher Paul Stelling, Rice Cultivation Society and Unicycle Loves You have always been the core artists of the label. My buddy Spencer recently ditched Universal Records to work more independently as a publicist, and we came across this dude SWF whose record we're going to work together to release. Think of a meditative Kurt Vile and you've got SWF. So, Mecca Lecca still has a future.

I look at a label like Kanine to give me hope. They were a really tiny label here in Brooklyn. One day they got really really lucky and Apple wanted to license a song by Chairlift and it changed everything.

GeevyDallas: Looking forward to hearing some stuff from SWF so, sounds great. Was there ever a long term goal you wanted achieve with Mecca Lecca? And is there anything else by the bands on your label due to be released in the coming months that you could tell us about?

meccalecca: Hmmm. Long term goals are really ideal when starting a business, but I've never been one for long term goals. I guess I've always just wanted to push things forward and see what I could built. I knew when I started that it was highly unlikely to become the next Sub Pop or Merge. Those labels came into existence at the right time.

This year has been a bit slow for Mecca Lecca releases. Christopher Paul Stelling released his sophomore record False Cities back in May to some really positive reviews and then headed out on the road. Following that, there was nothing left on the calendar until SWF came into the picture. His debut Let It Be Told will be released in October. A few publications have expressed interest, so we have some hope that it could end up getting some nice attention.

Howth has been recording two full length albums, but neither is close enough to done to have a date set yet. The one is the TMNT concept album and the other is a return to their DIY folk roots, so they'll both be really different. There's something really special about this band, and in particular the singer/songwriter Carl Creighton. The demos have turned out really strong and basically sound good enough to be the album, but they're perfectionists. Here's a bit of a preview of how those demos are coming together. It's not the most epic song from the record, but it's a fun one. http://howthhowth.bandcamp.com/track/superfreak

GeevyDallas: Thanks for that, sounds great, keep us updated. I think you’ve touched all the bases with regards to your involvement in music, so i’ll move on. Looking through your chart and seeing Blur at the top is rather strange, I know it’s easily their most American release so to speak, but I've always seen them as a uniquely British band and one that based on your other entries it's not a band i'd have though to recommend to you. How did you come across that album? Did you love it from the moment you heard it? How do you feel about the rest of Blur’s releases?

meccalecca: Like most Americans probably, my introduction to Blur was "Song 2" became a fixture of MTV and radio. At the time I liked the song, but it wasn't anything special.

Then like any college student in early 2000 I went on a downloading spree with the help of Napster and a fast internet connection. At some point, I got obsessed with Brit Pop, so naturally I discovered the early Blur records, and fell in love. At first, I was a way bigger fan of Parklife, Modern Life and The Great Escape. I still don't really care for Leisure. Then I bought a copy of 13. The album lacked some of the catchy pop that the other albums had, but it really struck me emotionally. It was profound to me upon my first listen, and can still get me pretty choked up if the mood is right.

It's funny. I actually see 13 as a perfect link to nearly everything on my chart. Many of those albums are deeply emotional, a bit depressing, but often musically adventurous.

GeevyDallas: For sure, it’s just I guess how I see Blur is the first four albums, I rarely go back to anything after that, although I still quite like them. I've a bit of a random question for you now. I just seen someone post about it on twitter and was replying to you at the time, so i thought someone with experience in music like yourself and being older than myself would be in a better place to talk about it. Do you think sincerity is being lost in music? You've said earlier that bands rarely get exposure on the back of their music alone(although I guess that wouldn't always have something to do with the artist themselves), but at the same time their music isn't speaking for them if you know what I mean. Do you think art in the purest sense is becoming more and more rare? The person alluded to the lack of sincerity in culture, thus leading onto the lack of sincerity in art. Do you think music fans are sincere? Does pitchfork, rolling stone, etc. guide people through new music, or do they actively influence what people love and consume?

meccalecca: This one's pretty complex. I think there will always be a sincerity in music somewhere. There will always be someone out on their own, reaching deep within themselves to give it their all. But there's also the battle between man and machine that continues to wage on. Digitization, auto-tune, synthesizers, computer-generated orchestrations, and pristine production can often turn a really heartfelt song into a soulless monster. There's a reason many artists still prefer recording on analog gear and with more primitive techniques.

I think American culture has grown more lethargic than I've seen in my lifetime. I would credit this to a mix of pharmaceutical culture and the effects of technological consumption. But it's still hard to imagine that people will all eventually become totally mindless drones, even if it does seem that way.

In regards to the focus of publications, they all seem to want interesting back stories, scandal, and anything that will pump up page views by generating a ton of comments. A perfect example of this is Death Grips. The biggest, most talked about perform of Lollapalooza is the one Death Grips didn't give. It's a publicity stunt. They're signed to a major label who must be backing their decisions. The bulk of the press related to Death Grips and many other bigger artists is often in regards to their antics and has little to do with the quality of their music. As a writer, it's way easier and more fun to write about a band's antics than their tonality.

I have faith that there will always be people like Daniel Johnston, East River Pipe, and Phil Elverum making meaningful lo-fi recordings to counteract all of the maximalist, glossy productions of pop artists.

GeevyDallas: Yeah I know what you mean, I have so many thoughts on the issue bouncing around my head, it's hard I guess to make sense of it all really, well for me anyways. Not knowing the individuals, only having a glimpse of their lives through their music, it's hard to see their motivations I guess. I was talking with purple/ppnw about the interview, he noted you were a big fan of slowcore and wanted to get your thoughts on action and reaction in music, or if it exists? Like was slowcore really a response to the noise of the late 80s and early 90s, or did it develop on its own?

meccalecca: Interesting. For some reason I rarely think about action and reaction within music the same way I have with fine art. Anyone who has ever taken a modern art history course could tell you that nearly every art movement of the past couple centuries has been a direct response to what happened before. I would have to think music wouldn't be that much different. Artists of all fields are searching for new directions creatively. Artists are rebellious, so it makes sense that they would decide to go against the grain of whatever trend is currently happening.

I'm not sure that bands like Galaxie 500, Low and American Music Club were consciously reacting to the noisiness of some of their contemporaries, but they did offer a lot of relief from that, which is probably why a lot of people embraced those bands.

Many of my favorite albums this year have been minimalist. The music I've been listening to in general lately has been quiet an restrained. I believe this is a result of being overwhelmed by the general maximalistic approach in music lately. Musicians seem to be afraid of allowing even a millisecond of silence seep through, so they clutter their albums with an endless sea of tracks. Compared to the bulk of music being released this year, Pet Sounds would appear minimal. It's a shame. Silence is one of the most powerful tools a musician can utilize. For example all you have to do is listen to a song like "Waiting" by Low. There's breathing room. Every word, every note on the piano and guitar feels more meaningful because of the silences between them.

GeevyDallas: I guess it would be hard to judge whether or not it exists today, short of someone saying that’s their goal reacting to another’s work, well at any point really, but more so today with the sheer amount of music being produced and it’s availability. This brings me perfectly onto my final question (thanks again for being so great about this, it’s been a pleasure), what albums have you been enjoying in the past few months, and could you give us a couple of recommendations?

meccalecca: Thanks! It's been quite enjoyable for me as well. It's funny, when friends ask me what I've been listening to face to face, I usually freeze up. Does anyone else run into that issue?

Lately, I've been listening rather obsessively to Mark Kozelek's entire discography. His collaboration with Jimmy Lavalle is easily one of my favorite albums this year. Kozelek really knows how to tell a story.

I also recently listened to the dB's for the first time. I have no idea how I overlooked them for so long. Their records are pretty straightforward power pop, but it's all so wonderfully infectious. I can't help to keep returning to songs like "We Were Happy There," "Dynamite" and "Lonely Is (As Lonely Does)."

And well, since these are my final words of the interview, I'll recommend two totally unique and really underappreciated records.

H'art Songs by Moondog: Moondog was a well known street musician in NYC during the 50s and 60s. He famously a Viking helmet. During those decades, he gained the attention of many jazz greats for his unique compositional styles and percussion techniques. Moondog was 62 at the time of H'art Songs, but the album showcased a playfulness most adults lose years earlier. On the surface, the songs are simple vocal ditties, but there's so much depth and soul beneath it all.

Manhattan Research, Inc by Raymond Scott: You've likely heard the music of Raymond Scott many many times without knowing it. In the 1940s, Warner Brothers bought the rights to his back catalog, and that music became a consistent soundtrack to Looney Tunes cartoons. I love those wild big band orchestrations, but Raymond Scott was also a pioneer of experimental music. Before Phillip Glass and Eno, he was composing unique experiments with electronics. Manhattan Research, Inc sounds profoundly ahead of its time.


Shouts out to meccalecca, he was great and it was a pleasure to talk with him. Shouts out to everyone I consulted about the qs, you know who you are. I could have asked him another 100 questions, but it was already getting a bit long, so if i missed something i apologize

[Facetious]

[meccalecca]

Big thanks to GeevyDallas. He was a really thoughtful interviewer. Caught me off guard with the name change at one point also.
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http://jonnyleather.com

[CellarDoor]

Woah, that was... intimidating ! Great interview
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I'll be your plastic toy.

[sp4cetiger]

Great interview, your life must be a lot of fun.

And Johnny Leather? The name alone would be enough to get someone a record deal. They wouldn't even need a demo.

[them]

Well done on both ends

This is one of the best threads I've so far found on BEA.

[meccalecca]

[Wombi]

Brilliant read. As Cellar Door said, it's intimidating - on all levels. Really well thought out responses MeccaLecca. You've had a really interesting musical career so far and I gotta say the fact that you're looking further in pursuing it (in terms of starting a venue) is inspiring.

[meccalecca]

[Wombi]