[quote="Jhereko"
in regards to Gussteivi: I don't think he was saying what you think he was saying.
[/quote]
You've overestimated me, I was saying exactly what he thinks I was saying
I was so wrong
To MNS:
Apart from what drakonium and Jhereko said, which I obviously agree with I'd like to add that for me The Kinks probably were the best band of all time when it comes to the craft of making a pop song (yes, maybe even better than the Beatles).
They always knew exactly when to move on to another section so it doesn't get boring. (And even a song like "Love me til the sun shines" which is based on repetitiveness works incredibly well. It's a simple yet powerful message that deserves being pounded into you.)
And their harmonies weren't in your face awesome, but whenever they came up with a nice chord change/progression they made the most use of it possible. I don't know, everything just flows together so well. The same goes for the arrangements and the guitar playing somehow, it's all about how they make perfect use of every single element in their compositions for me. Everything that reaches your ears is there for a specific purpose and it never overstays it's welcome.
So that combined with some of the best lyrics ever and a sense of melody only equalled by Manic Street Preachers (amirite outlaw) and The Beatles is what makes them "great" imo.
It took me a while to realize all this and maybe you will too one day, try to keep an open mind etc etc
But yeah, great album, I don't prefer it to Village Green but it does have my favourite Kinks songs in Shangri-La and I really enjoy tracks like Victoria too. _________________
Just sounds like a collection of fun little rock songs that anyone could have written. Nothing appealing about this but the nostalgic production for me.
Dammit! I wrote a superlong response to Mother Nature's Son but it timed out ugh
To keep it way too simple:
in regards to Gussteivi: I don't think he was saying what you think he was saying.
in regards to The Kinks: their purpose is not to fill you with joy (mostly) their purpose is to be so sarcastic that when you realise what they're saying it feels like a slap in the face. Just like the "British Empire".
This is album is a masterpiece.
That's a shame, I would've loved to read it, but I understand if you don't want to write it all over again. However, please explain in what way I've misunderstood gussteivi's original statement. I don't see in what other possible way I could understand it.
drakonium wrote:
About the "great" word, I guess you're right, but most of the time, I just don't know which other word to use
About the Kinks, now. Their songs aren't supposed to be uplifting. It's precisely the opposite. Their songs are like pictures of society, dealing with silly habits, grotesque clichés and sad situations, but most of the time with a small touch of humor. I think the best example of their style is the song A Well-Respected Man. This songs seems catchy, fun and silly, but in reality it's a pitiless critique of the expectations of society, the life of the average British, and the stupidity of the clichés surrounding certain people. It's really depressive. But at the same time, it's treated with humor. Their not like "your life is bad you should change don't listen to the government fuck society", it'd be annoying. They just tell a story, describe a life, a person, make fun of it, of you and of themselves, and it makes you laugh, but it also makes you think. The Kinks are among those rare bands that actually have something to say. They are like the Molières (not sure how you call him in English) of music. They criticize through comedy. It has never been supposed to make you happy. Smile; not happy. And that's the strength of The Kinks. Because not only their lyrics are some of the best in the world, but their music is also incredibly catchy, and Davies' voice is IMO one of the most expressive ever. He can sing nostalgia, sadness, jokes, joice, anger, and tell stories like nobody else.
It's always difficult to pick a favorite band, but within the world of pop music, The Kinks are easily on top. They never wrote Forever Changes, they never sounded as incredible as MBV's guitars, and they didn't change pop music like The Beatles did, but to me, they are much more than that. They are humans, they sing about humans, and they do it in the best way possible. I know I can't change your opinion on them, but a different point of view always helps. The Kinks mean a lot to me and I'll always try my best to make people love them
And also, their first is by pretty far the worst out of their first ten albums, IMO
Thanks for the thoughtful answer.
Okay, first let's have a (small) discussion about the word "great"! If you use it to describe the quality of something, I'll recommend using "good" instead when it's something that isn't too special. Essentially, "great" means "very good". I just find it a little contradictory that it's not too special, yet it's "great". I don't know why I'm making such a big deal out of this!
About the lyrics of the album (and of Kinks' other albums too), I haven't really delved into them yet. I tend to get into the music before I even start paying attention to the lyrics (I'm really not much of a lyrics guy, as long as it sounds good and not too cliché then I'm happy ). If the message has to get through, the music has to be interesting, otherwise I wouldn't be listening to music! I know there are other examples of songs, musically better, criticizing society with a humorous touch. Hmm, "Getting Better" with The Beatles is uplifting and humorous, but the lyrics are definitely not happy (the song does suggest it's getting better, but that's questionable too). This makes me question one thing: why even make happy music attached to non-happy lyrics? Maybe it makes the critic more criticizing, I'm not sure.
Anyway, another point of view always helps, but as it is right now, The Kinks don't really strike a chord with me... yet. It's not to say it's bad, because it isn't. I might even prefer it to The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society, which is also a good album (not great ). It might be his voice that decides our different opinions of the band. To you, it seems that his voice has a wide emotional range, but to me, his voice gives every Kinks song the exact same mood.
My preference of their debut album is probably the same with non-Beatles fans who prefer Please Please Me despite other albums being much more obvious favourites, I don't know.
EDIT: Seems I actually haven't misunderstood gussteivi's comment. _________________ "The Beatles, the greatest band known to mankind." - Bismah Mughal
My preference of their debut album is probably the same with non-Beatles fans who prefer Please Please Me despite other albums being much more obvious favourites, I don't know.
I hope you aren't including me amongst "non-Beatles fans". I love The Beatles.
[quote="Jhereko"
in regards to Gussteivi: I don't think he was saying what you think he was saying.
You've overestimated me, I was saying exactly what he thinks I was saying
I was so wrong
To MNS:
Apart from what drakonium and Jhereko said, which I obviously agree with I'd like to add that for me The Kinks probably were the best band of all time when it comes to the craft of making a pop song (yes, maybe even better than the Beatles).
They always knew exactly when to move on to another section so it doesn't get boring. (And even a song like "Love me til the sun shines" which is based on repetitiveness works incredibly well. It's a simple yet powerful message that deserves being pounded into you.)
And their harmonies weren't in your face awesome, but whenever they came up with a nice chord change/progression they made the most use of it possible. I don't know, everything just flows together so well. The same goes for the arrangements and the guitar playing somehow, it's all about how they make perfect use of every single element in their compositions for me. Everything that reaches your ears is there for a specific purpose and it never overstays it's welcome.
So that combined with some of the best lyrics ever and a sense of melody only equalled by Manic Street Preachers (amirite outlaw) and The Beatles is what makes them "great" imo.
It took me a while to realize all this and maybe you will too one day, try to keep an open mind etc etc[/quote]
Thoughtful answer too. Thanks! Maybe that's my problem with their music. I want it to be more bombastic. I often feel it's building up to something, but never releases its tension and instead just disappoints.
I'm not done trying, that's for sure, but it's like I often expect something else (not the album ) than what I'm getting. Oh, well!
EDIT: Oops! Really fucked up this quote thing! _________________ "The Beatles, the greatest band known to mankind." - Bismah Mughal
Last edited by Mother Nature's Son on 09/04/2013 20:30; edited 1 time in total
Okay, first let's have a (small) discussion about the word "great"! If you use it to describe the quality of something, I'll recommend using "good" instead when it's something that isn't too special. Essentially, "great" means "very good". I just find it a little contradictory that it's not too special, yet it's "great". I don't know why I'm making such a big deal out of this!
About the lyrics of the album (and of Kinks' other albums too), I haven't really delved into them yet. I tend to get into the music before I even start paying attention to the lyrics (I'm really not much of a lyrics guy, as long as it sounds good and not too cliché then I'm happy ). If the message has to get through, the music has to be interesting, otherwise I wouldn't be listening to music! I know there are other examples of songs, musically better, criticizing society with a humorous touch. Hmm, "Getting Better" with The Beatles is uplifting and humorous, but the lyrics are definitely not happy (the song does suggest it's getting better, but that's questionable too). This makes me question one thing: why even make happy music attached to non-happy lyrics? Maybe it makes the critic more criticizing, I'm not sure.
Anyway, another point of view always helps, but as it is right now, The Kinks don't really strike a chord with me... yet. It's not to say it's bad, because it isn't. I might even prefer it to The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society, which is also a good album (not great ). It might be his voice that decides our different opinions of the band. To you, it seems that his voice has a wide emotional range, but to me, his voice gives every Kinks song the exact same mood.
My preference of their debut album is probably the same with non-Beatles fans who prefer Please Please Me despite other albums being much more obvious favourites, I don't know.
EDIT: Seems I actually haven't misunderstood gussteivi's comment.
Oh, I thought it was the overuse of the word that bothered you. Actually that's what I meant : it's a great song, but I just couldn't remember any particular characteristic I could talk about, so that's why I wrote it was nothing special. I guess the problem comes from that part then, not the "great" one, because I definitely think it's great
I'm not a lyrics guy either. I'm like you, I mostly look at them when I love the music. It just happened that I thought the Kinks made amazing music, so I checked their lyrics, and I thought they were amazing too. I guess my point about the lyrics were more some advice to help you like their music For example, I wasn't a huge Antlers fan, but everyone was talking about how amazing we're the lyrics, so I thought I'd check them out to see if it would change my enjoyment of the album. It totally did! So I thought I'd just recommend you to give attention to the lyrics because it might help
Making a joyful song with depressive lyrics is something pretty classic, but it's something which works most of the time for me. That's also why I love Eels so much (and particularly Electro-Shock Blues), for example. Lyrics are not the main part of a pop/rock song, so I don't expect them to be fantastic, that's not what I'm looking for. But that's also why I don't need much to be satisfied. Lower expectations, higher enjoyment, right?
About their first album... Bah, it's like that, eh. As you said, it's like preferring Please Please Me to their later works. I can't figure out how it's even possible, but that's what is great about music, I guess. The only difference between the two debuts, though, is that I love The Beatles' and I'm bored to tears by the Kinks' (expect when they play You Really Got Me obviously)
I just listened to Arthur again, and I must say that I had really underrated Australia and Shangri-La. They are fantastic song, as much as any other on the album. Drivin' and Brainwashed, on the other hand, are not as good as I remembered. Still very good tracks, just not awesome.
I hope you aren't including me amongst "non-Beatles fans". I love The Beatles.
Actually I was. I did know you liked them, but I didn't know you considered yourself a fan. Anyway, "non-Beatles fans" was a bad way to put, maybe. Just thought Beatles-fans would pretty much love all their music and therefore pick a more obvious album as their favourite. Not that it's impossible to be a Beatles-fan and have Please Please Me as favourite Beatles album. I don't know why I wrote it... _________________ "The Beatles, the greatest band known to mankind." - Bismah Mughal
Oh, I thought it was the overuse of the word that bothered you. Actually that's what I meant : it's a great song, but I just couldn't remember any particular characteristic I could talk about, so that's why I wrote it was nothing special. I guess the problem comes from that part then, not the "great" one, because I definitely think it's great
I'm not a lyrics guy either. I'm like you, I mostly look at them when I love the music. It just happened that I thought the Kinks made amazing music, so I checked their lyrics, and I thought they were amazing too. I guess my point about the lyrics were more some advice to help you like their music For example, I wasn't a huge Antlers fan, but everyone was talking about how amazing we're the lyrics, so I thought I'd check them out to see if it would change my enjoyment of the album. It totally did! So I thought I'd just recommend you to give attention to the lyrics because it might help
Making a joyful song with depressive lyrics is something pretty classic, but it's something which works most of the time for me. That's also why I love Eels so much (and particularly Electro-Shock Blues), for example. Lyrics are not the main part of a pop/rock song, so I don't expect them to be fantastic, that's not what I'm looking for. But that's also why I don't need much to be satisfied. Lower expectations, higher enjoyment, right?
About their first album... Bah, it's like that, eh. As you said, it's like preferring Please Please Me to their later works. I can't figure out how it's even possible, but that's what is great about music, I guess. The only difference between the two debuts, though, is that I love The Beatles' and I'm bored to tears by the Kinks' (expect when they play You Really Got Me obviously)
I just listened to Arthur again, and I must say that I had really underrated Australia and Shangri-La. They are fantastic song, as much as any other on the album. Drivin' and Brainwashed, on the other hand, are not as good as I remembered. Still very good tracks, just not awesome.
Well, yes and now, I think. Your use of "great" bothered me because I thought you just threw around with it unnecessarily, but now that you've explained you DO think it's great, I've no problem with it whatsoever. Yeah, it was probably just the "nothing too special"-part that confused me! Okay, we understand each other and we're still friends 'n' stuff... everything's great!
Actually, because I'm not the biggest Bob Dylan fan ever, I've started to read along with Dylan's lyrics and it's helped a lot. Now I don't feel so alienated by what just sounds like a guy rambling, but I actually feel that he's telling me a story. I've tried that with other artists, though it wasn't a success with Joanna Newsom (SO many lyrics.. didn't really bother to read them). Maybe it will me help me appreciate The Kinks to read along? You never know!
What I like best about their debut is the punkish "spitting" mixed with what's basically the same kind of music as what Beatles delivered (maybe just delayed a year). I don't know, just think it's enjoyable. _________________ "The Beatles, the greatest band known to mankind." - Bismah Mughal
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). It might be his voice that decides our different opinions of the band. To you, it seems that his voice has a wide emotional range, but to me, his voice gives every Kinks song the exact same mood.
Okay, we understand each other and we're still friends 'n' stuff... everything's great! 
You never know!
