Outsider Art/Art Brut - Music - Forums : Best Ever Albums

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

"The term outsider art was coined by art critic Roger Cardinal in 1972 as an English synonym for art brut (French: [aʁ bʁyt], "raw art" or "rough art"), a label created by French artist Jean Dubuffet to describe art created outside the boundaries of official culture; Dubuffet focused particularly on art by those on the outsides of the established art scene such as insane-asylum inmates and children."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_art

Outsider artists generally lack any formal training, and do not perceive art as a profession. Their pursuit of an art form is far more natural and uninhibited.

When it comes to fine art, Outsider Art may be my favorite "genre." An artist like Henry Darger was able to amass an incredible body of work that was truly imaginative and also rather unclassifiable.

Music has seen its fair share of Outsiders as well. Daniel Johnston and Wesley Willis are the first to come to mind, while Roky Erikson and Syd Barrett straddled the line between outsiders and insiders due to their psychological disorders.

Do any of you guys have favorite Outsider musicians?

Do you think the work of an outsider is more genuine, or is it just childish trash?

Norman Bates

Gender: Male
Age: 51
Location: Paris, France

meccalecca wrote:

1. Do any of you guys have favorite Outsider musicians?

2. Do you think the work of an outsider is more genuine, or is it just childish trash?

1. I'm not sure which musicians I know of could be defined as "outsiders", but since you mention him, I love Johnston. Never heard of Wesley Willis.

2. It is neither one nor the other. An artist being qualified for the "outsider" branch of the business doesn't imply anything for the quality of his work.

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

Norman Bates wrote:

1. I'm not sure which musicians I know of could be defined as "outsiders", but since you mention him, I love Johnston. Never heard of Wesley Willis.

Yeah, it's way harder to distinguish with musicians than fine artists. Like Moondog could be seen as an outsider based on being a street musician, but he was far too technically skilled to fit most criteria (if there is such thing).

Wesley Willis isn't of Johnston's level, but he was worth a chuckle if nothing else. He was a mentally challenged obese Chicago street musician. He played keyboard, and sang songs about bands he loved and sucking on animals dicks. Every song was basically identical to the rest, aside from a few word changes. Although he could have been perceived as the butt of a joke, he seemed to be really happy with life. I got to see him back in 2000, and it was a pretty magical experience.

Guest

meccalecca wrote:

Yeah, it's way harder to distinguish with musicians than fine artists. Like Moondog could be seen as an outsider based on being a street musician, but he was far too technically skilled to fit most criteria (if there is such thing).

Wesley Willis isn't of Johnston's level, but he was worth a chuckle if nothing else. He was a mentally challenged obese Chicago street musician. He played keyboard, and sang songs about bands he loved and sucking on animals dicks. Every song was basically identical to the rest, aside from a few word changes. Although he could have been perceived as the butt of a joke, he seemed to be really happy with life. I got to see him back in 2000, and it was a pretty magical experience.

I've always like the idea of Wesley Willis more than the music of Wesley Willis.

Kiki

Why not the music of Wesley Willis?

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

lethalnezzle wrote:

I've always like the idea of Wesley Willis more than the music of Wesley Willis.

Well, I don't think anyone seriously likes his music. He's just a lovable loser who seemed to make the most of life. and that's inspiring

Guest

meccalecca wrote:

Well, I don't think anyone seriously likes his music. He's just a lovable loser who seemed to make the most of life. and that's inspiring

I didn't mean that to sound as dismissive as it did. I actually really like Wesley Willis from what I've read about him, but his music is definitely a small doses only thing for me.

Kool Keith Sweat

Considering what's here (which might not be credible considering the list features Tay Zonday Laughing

), I've only listened to The Shaggs, Syd Barrett, The Residents, Captain Beefheart, Daniel Johnston, Jandek, and Roky Erikson. What I've heard from each is alright, but I really only listen to Jandek, Johnston, and The Residents with some regularity. As far as whether their work is genuine, I'm pretty sure all these people have more extreme psychoses than your average musical genius, so I'll side with genuine. What I like about a lot of these musicians is their unpredictability, which can even lead to uneasiness in the listener.

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

I'm sure East River Pipe could be considered as well.

Abner Jay is a great one I forgot.

sp4cetiger

meccalecca wrote:

Do you think the work of an outsider is more genuine, or is it just childish trash?

I'd say it would be more genuine art brut, but very poor prog rock. Think

I'm not just being flippant -- I think it only makes sense to judge art on a critic's own terms. It's why Rolling Stone can strongly prefer Dylan's Highway 61 over Bowie's Low, while p4k has a clear preference for the latter. Both sets of reviewers are probably experienced and knowledgable about music, they just see it from a different point of view.

Me personally, I'm a proud P personality type, so I try to understand both viewpoints rather than sign up for one or the other. I try to judge albums on whether they have succeeded on their own terms and whether they actually have a self-consistent approach. In the case of art brut, I suppose that would be very difficult to judge, since it's created by an outsider. It would seem the only terms by which I could judge it are the lack of any terms that I can understand...

So... I guess I'm talking myself out of the genre. Not that there's anything wrong with outsider art, just that I don't like the idea of lumping it all together into a single genre. It's the same reason I dislike the concept of "exotica.". It's sort of like a celebration of ignorance for the sake of novelty.