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Kool Keith Sweat

I'm not saying Dylan isn't good, but to believe he's not overrated is to be infatuated with him. Some publications (mostly American) and UK bookies consider him a contender for the Nobel Prize in Literature (though a poor one). Words are words and I'd be lying if I said several musical lyrics don't touch me on the same level as literary works, but frankly I think it's insulting to believe Dylan's lyrics are the best in all artforms with words, especially considering the politics of that prize. The Nobel prize committee has stated outright that it's biased against American literature for being too insular, and maybe it's partly because popular opinion here considers Dylan a contender, implicitly snubbing Pynchon, Roth, Delillo, McCarthy, and other great American writers that already have to compete with tens if not over a hundred of other great living literary figures across the globe. Not to mention that some people actually expect Dylan to be the first musical figure awarded that prize. It's also incredibly predictable to see Dylan in these lyrics-based threads just as it is to see five Beatles albums top a best albums chart (which seems to be an OK enough basis to call them overrated). Of course, whether or not he is "overrated" comes down to personal appreciation of his writing, but if you disagree that the weight he is given does not balance with his work, I simply can't take you seriously.

andy_hunter

Kool Keith Sweat wrote:

I'm not saying Dylan isn't good, but to believe he's not overrated is to be infatuated with him. Some publications (mostly American) and UK bookies consider him a contender for the Nobel Prize in Literature (though a poor one). Words are words and I'd be lying if I said several musical lyrics don't touch me on the same level as literary works, but frankly I think it's insulting to believe Dylan's lyrics are the best in all artforms with words, especially considering the politics of that prize. The Nobel prize committee has stated outright that it's biased against American literature for being too insular, and maybe it's partly because popular opinion here considers Dylan a contender, implicitly snubbing Pynchon, Roth, Delillo, McCarthy, and other great American writers that already have to compete with tens if not over a hundred of other great living literary figures across the globe. Not to mention that some people actually expect Dylan to be the first musical figure awarded that prize. It's also incredibly predictable to see Dylan in these lyrics-based threads just as it is to see five Beatles albums top a best albums chart (which seems to be an OK enough basis to call them overrated). Of course, whether or not he is "overrated" comes down to personal appreciation of his writing, but if you disagree that the weight he is given does not balance with his work, I simply can't take you seriously.

There a few things I'd like to say in reply this but frankly I'm intimidated by the knowledge and intelligence which went into crafting that post. You're obviously very clever and know a lot about literature, something which I pretend to know about but really know nothing about, so I'm not going to argue with you.
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bigeyedfish

Kool Keith Sweat wrote:

I'm not saying Dylan isn't good, but to believe he's not overrated is to be infatuated with him. Some publications (mostly American) and UK bookies consider him a contender for the Nobel Prize in Literature (though a poor one). Words are words and I'd be lying if I said several musical lyrics don't touch me on the same level as literary works, but frankly I think it's insulting to believe Dylan's lyrics are the best in all artforms with words, especially considering the politics of that prize. The Nobel prize committee has stated outright that it's biased against American literature for being too insular, and maybe it's partly because popular opinion here considers Dylan a contender, implicitly snubbing Pynchon, Roth, Delillo, McCarthy, and other great American writers that already have to compete with tens if not over a hundred of other great living literary figures across the globe. Not to mention that some people actually expect Dylan to be the first musical figure awarded that prize. It's also incredibly predictable to see Dylan in these lyrics-based threads just as it is to see five Beatles albums top a best albums chart (which seems to be an OK enough basis to call them overrated). Of course, whether or not he is "overrated" comes down to personal appreciation of his writing, but if you disagree that the weight he is given does not balance with his work, I simply can't take you seriously.

I also won't argue, seeing as you're pretty on top of it. I will say the weight he is given lines up pretty well with the influence he's had in the world, so that's fair, even if that influence outweighs the actual quality of his writing.

The reason I'm such a fan is because I love his use of ridiculous surrealism to talk about the real world and create a strong feeling even when you have no clue what he's talking about.

Kool Keith Sweat

I'm not trying to say Dylan isn't a good/great (at least musical) lyricist; I'm saying he's been put on a pedestal.

bigeyedfish

I can definitely agree with that, even if I personally think he deserves it. That's a common theme with celebrated artists, though. Anyone who is "one of the best" is put on a pedestal, since it's all really subjective. The 'objective' best just becomes either the most popular, the most influential or (Beatles) both. Dylan is a case of that, to be sure; everything he did was influential in his biggest years, and his music is pretty easily accessible without being 'bad.'

Guest

andy_hunter wrote:

There a few things I'd like to say in reply this but frankly I'm intimidated by the knowledge and intelligence which went into crafting that post. You're obviously very clever and know a lot about literature, something which I pretend to know about but really know nothing about, so I'm not going to argue with you.

Perfect response. I totally feel this way in regards to some of the really intelligent users here, but eh, it gives me something to strive for when I'm older. Intelligence and eloquence.

But yeah, I agree with Purple fo' sho'. And his lyrics are good, but I've never been struck by them as being really really good. And for all the people who say he is a great lyricist, they never really post a favourite lyric of his, which is weird, I'd kind of expect them to. XD I see more talk of his lyrics being great than I actually see examples.

bigeyedfish

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bobdylan...eding.html

First Dylan lyrics to come to my head that I love

creator

Age: 36
Location: chicago

rayword45 wrote:

The Mountain Goats don't get enough fucking respect on this site.

Agreed! All Hail West Texas was the first album that took me to another place. I felt like I could hear the best ever death metal band out of Denton practicing in Jeff's garage down the street.

Guest

creator wrote:

Agreed! All Hail West Texas was the first album that took me to another place. I felt like I could hear the best ever death metal band out of Denton practicing in Jeff's garage down the street.

'When you punish a person for dreaming his dream, don't expect him to thank or forgive you'

Kool Keith Sweat

Back to the point of the thread, excluding solo acts...

hit close to home
Red House Painters/Sun Kil Moon
Low
Portishead

can be incredibly clever and emotive
Built to Spill
Pavement
Modest Mouse
The Replacements

I know I'm missing several acts; largely recycling what's been said. I'm surprised Portishead hasn't been mentioned yet, though. Several songs off their first two albums (most notably "Glory Box") and the entirety of Third address women's issues in the most direct way I've seen outside of ostentatiously feminist music, and definitely in the most sinister way.