I enjoy a fair amount of stuff that gets called post-grunge but a lot of the best stuff, at least in terms of albums, seems to have influences from other genres in there as well, and that then maybe raises a question of whether the album should even have the post-grunge label. The genre holds up fairly well track-wise imo but there's maybe not so many great albums - the Verve Pipe's 'Villains' is a personal favourite and 'Eleventh Avenue' by Ammonia is worth checking out too (though like 'Villains' it's not strictly post-grunge).
Yeah, it seems like "post-grunge" was more about what record companies were looking for than any kind of coherent movement. Melody-oriented guitar rock with relatively simple arrangements, with some (but not too much) angst or anger mixed in. It's probably unfair to the bands themselves to lump them together into "post-grunge", since they seemed to have a wide range of influences.
with some (but not too much) angst or anger mixed in.
That's actually bang on I'd say, and if the anger is too much / overdone (vocally or otherwise) then it's probably knocking on the door of alt-metal (or something similar).
Right I said I'll do this so I will. "emo" is one of the genres listed here. The problem I have is much the same as that old "teenage girl music" thread - what the hell is it? There's so many ways of looking at it. I've talked to friends about the genre and many says it's literally just "screamo" without the screaming, others say it's music marketed towards an emo demographic, others say it's a specific combo of metal and pop punk. Wikipedia says it's "a style of rock music characterized by melodic musicianship and expressive, often confessional lyrics." Well what on Earth is that supposed to mean? That's 90% of decent rock, that's just a melody and expression in lyrics. Is Fleetwood Mac Emo then? Is Elliott Smith? This bothers me to NO end. I've heard arguments made for bands I would NEVER think of as emo (Bauhaus, Joy Division, Tuxedomoon, Hellogoodbye, Death Cab for Cutie, Minor Threat, and Fall Out Boy as examples). The first three are post punk, maybe goth, but not EMO. Hellogoodbye is a synth pop group, I can't even hear the punk or rock in their sound. To me, Death Cab for Cutie is NOT by any means emo, though Ben Gibbard remains as confused about the genre as I am. Minor Threat is just punk, maybe hardcore, but not emo, I think it really predates the main emo movement of music, which isn't to say it couldn't be considered "emo", I just don't hear it. Fall Out Boy, as far as I've heard, had punk, then pop-punk, and now pop-rock. That's not emo. Punk is not emo just for whining more. Even OneRepublic and Owl City are categorized as "emo" by many, despite really just being pop bands with no even attempt at having an emo apperance.
And that gets into the issue of if appearance matters. Does, as a result of his appearance the time, The Cure count as "emo"? To me, they were post-punk and then became a new wave band, they were never emo despite maybe being a part of the culture in some indirect way. Alternatively, a band like Brand New never tried to fit the emo culture, though I'd say that they made music in the genre of emo, especially on Deja Entendu. But is it really emo if they aren't in the emo culture? Where does THAT line get drawn? There are people who would look at old Blink 182 and claim they were emo, making punk music. Well they weren't emo, imo, as it's more than appearance and they had more just a punk look to me. But similarly, I see bands like Green Day and Blue October get lumped onto the "emo" pile largely for appearance.
Lastly there's the subject matter. I've seen any song discussing suicide as anything less than the greatest sin ever committed referred to as emo. Take for example "Into The Ocean" by Blue October. If you listen to the music, it's a pop song. Got a fair amount of radio play as one. Lyrically, it's about suicidal thoughts. Does that make it emo? I would say no, but others would say yes. Even songs with just more of a "remorseful" tone to them seem to get lumped on. I was mocked for enjoying "The Rest of My Life" by Less Than Jake by friends as it was "emo" and that didn't fit into that friendgroup (gone from that group now worry not). But really, "The Rest of My Life" is not an emo song in and of itself anymore than "The Boys of Summer" would be seen as an emo song. It's really tough and I don't really like trying to separate out this genre.
Right, I'm gonna cut myself off there cuz I could go on for a while. This is an impossible genre but I'm going to give redeeming examples of albums I consider emo (that's the other thing - a LOT of these have to be album by album as bands don't stay emo ... this is really tough I'm sorry). ALL of these are categorized as either pop punk or post hardcore by some, but I consider them emo:
That's what I got. I've heard other emo albums, don't get me wrong, just nothing all too redeeming. I like the genre as I think of it, though there are still bad albums in it, and a lot of them. Mostly its honestly a song by song thing. _________________
The All-American Rejects should not even be mentioned alongside SDRE and Jimmy Eat World, never mind anywhere near the same league.
Not nearly as good, though honestly the debut I really liked. It's the least "emo" album on there but I still qualify it as one, personally. Though again, it's REALLY hard to define. _________________
Not nearly as good, though honestly the debut I really liked. It's the least "emo" album on there but I still qualify it as one, personally. Though again, it's REALLY hard to define.
It really doesn't sound like emo at all to me. Emo is short for emotional, and I felt no emotion listening to that.
It really doesn't sound like emo at all to me. Emo is short for emotional, and I felt no emotion listening to that.
See, this gets back into what it is. Can't say I feel any emotion listening to any of those but for Deja Entendu. If it's emotional, then it'd look more Nick Drake and Iron and Wine-y.
Not trying to be mean or anything to you, and you're not wrong at all, but the genre is wrong. It needs a more clear definition or to be broken up better or SOMETHING. _________________
Not trying to be mean or anything to you, and you're not wrong at all, but the genre is wrong. It needs a more clear definition or to be broken up better or SOMETHING.
I agree with this, but there are way too many pop-punk albums being labeled emo. Also, how can you not feel any emotions listening to Diary?
Now we're starting to mix emo with pop/punk, the latter being what I consider AAR to really be. Pop/punk and emo share some characteristics but I think they're definitely different.
When I think of the perfect example of an emo song, I think of this:
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