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Borve Baunehoj

JMan wrote:

Here's my opinion. If it's a nation, not state or city, that has a flag, they should be elegible.

I have my own flag

Guest

RFNAPLES wrote:

I disagree with your facts. Can you provide citations? England, Scotland and Wales are not listed as member nations by the UN, NOC, NATO, EU or World Court. Neither does the World Trade Organization recognize them. The National Olympic Committee lists Great Britain which includes England, Scotland and Wales and the other British Isles but shows the flag of the United Kingdom.

When and if Scotland becomes a separate nation/sovereign state it should then be so recognized.

Did you actually read what I posted?

If you had, then you would know that I never said that England, Scotland or Wales were individual member states of any of those organisations. What I said was that they are RECOGNISED as COUNTRIES within the union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland by all of those organisations. It is a founding principle of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so by acknowledging the soverignty of the member state (which is part of the founding charter of each organisation), then these organisations are by default acknowledging that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is made up of 4 separate countries. It's really not that hard but it is what the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is.

Look even wiki gets it... 'The form of government is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system. The capital city is London. It consists of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The latter three have devolved administrations, each with varying powers, based in their capital cities, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast respectively'

And the other British Isles don't compete as Great Britain. The Republic of Ireland (very much part of the British Isles) competes on it's own behalf and has done since 1924.

Anyway politics aside... if a Welsh band (like Super Furry Animals) defines themselves as Welsh and sings in Welsh... then why should they not be defined as being from Wales on a music website.

Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh

Gender: Male
Location: Washington

Magenta wrote:

Look even wiki gets it... 'The form of government is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system. The capital city is London. It consists of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The latter three have devolved administrations, each with varying powers, based in their capital cities, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast respectively'

Oh he gets it. It just isn't in his nature to admit that he is wrong. It's like arguing with a stone wall. Actually, a stone wall might actually budge.
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Happymeal

Jasonconfused wrote:

Oh he gets it. It just isn't in his nature to admit that he is wrong. It's like arguing with a stone wall. Actually, a stone wall might actually budge.

A stone furby Smile

RFNAPLES
Level 8

Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA

Magenta wrote:

Did you actually read what I posted?

If you had, then you would know that I never said that England, Scotland or Wales were individual member states of any of those organisations. What I said was that they are RECOGNISED as COUNTRIES within the union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland by all of those organisations. It is a founding principle of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so by acknowledging the soverignty of the member state (which is part of the founding charter of each organisation), then these organisations are by default acknowledging that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is made up of 4 separate countries. It's really not that hard but it is what the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is.

Look even wiki gets it... 'The form of government is a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system. The capital city is London. It consists of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The latter three have devolved administrations, each with varying powers, based in their capital cities, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast respectively'

And the other British Isles don't compete as Great Britain. The Republic of Ireland (very much part of the British Isles) competes on it's own behalf and has done since 1924.

Anyway politics aside... if a Welsh band (like Super Furry Animals) defines themselves as Welsh and sings in Welsh... then why should they not be defined as being from Wales on a music website.

Yes I read every word you wrote.

Did you see that I asked for citations? I cannot verify your "facts." Let Wikipedia call them countries but they are not nations therefore they are not nationalities. Northern Ireland is not recognized by the NOC (Only FIFA). Ireland is recognized, not Northern Ireland.

Two sovereign states are located on the British Isles: Ireland (additionally described as the Republic of Ireland, covering five-sixths of the island of the same name) and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom). Ireland may competed against the UK but it is not a member of the UK.

BTW I have friends that live out in the country too. And yes there is the Great Sioux Nation but it is not a Nation in the global sense.
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RFNAPLES
Level 8

Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA

Jasonconfused wrote:

Oh he gets it. It just isn't in his nature to admit that he is wrong. It's like arguing with a stone wall. Actually, a stone wall might actually budge.

If two or more stone walls disagree who is more stubborn?
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JMan

RFNAPLES wrote:

If two or more stone walls disagree who is more stubborn?

A question the world may never know the answer to...

RFNAPLES
Level 8

Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA

Q: Why is a mule stubborn?
A: Because he has horse sense
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Guest

RFNAPLES wrote:

Yes I read every word you wrote.

Did you see that I asked for citations? I cannot verify your "facts." Let Wikipedia call them countries but they are not nations therefore they are not nationalities. Northern Ireland is not recognized by the NOC (Only FIFA). Ireland is recognized, not Northern Ireland.

Two sovereign states are located on the British Isles: Ireland (additionally described as the Republic of Ireland, covering five-sixths of the island of the same name) and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (commonly known as the United Kingdom). Ireland may competed against the UK but it is not a member of the UK.

BTW I have friends that live out in the country too. And yes there is the Great Sioux Nation but it is not a Nation in the global sense.

Again you aren't reading what I said

You said... the rest of the British Isles compete as Great Britain
I said... no they don't because the Republic of Ireland competes on its own.

For citations.. I refer you to the founding charters of each of those organisations you mentioned where the soverignty of each member state is acknowledged. I know you won't read them so I can't be bothered looking them up for you.

I also refer you to the Treaty of Union which defines the principles of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, where it is stated that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland comprises of 4 countries. and the 'Countries within a country' document issued by the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 2003.

So it would seem Naples that everyone else in the world gets that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is made up of 4 countries... They get that Scotland is a different country and nation from England.. they they have their own customs and language, government and law.

So the only reasons I can see that you aren't getting this is because

a. You are having problems grasping the concept of 4 countries forming a union... in which case there is not much point in me carrying on this discussion because I don't know how to spell it out more simply.

b. You are just being stubborn and refusing to accept that you are wrong (based on past behaviour most likely). In which case there is not much point in carrying on this discussion either because you will always continue to be wrong but refuse to accept it.

c. Your definition of country and nation is so vastly different from the rest of the worlds and is purely based on a 'state' (based on your apparent loathing of the state and its communist overtones, unlikely). But if this is the case please provide a definition of both in political terms and I will be happy discuss further.

RFNAPLES
Level 8

Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA

Magenta wrote:

Again you aren't reading what I said

"You said... the rest of the British Isles compete as Great Britain
I said... no they don't because the Republic of Ireland competes on its own." YES the rest of the British Isles (not including the Republic of Ireland) compete as Great Britain.

"For citations.. I refer you to the founding charters of each of those organisations you mentioned where the soverignty of each member state is acknowledged. I know you won't read them so I can't be bothered looking them up for you." You might want to look them up for yourself, I think you will find I am right.

"I also refer you to the Treaty of Union which defines the principles of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, where it is stated that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland comprises of 4 countries. and the 'Countries within a country' document issued by the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in 2003." I doubt it since in 1706 Northern Ireland did not exist. Article 1 states "That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England, shall upon the 1st May next ensuing the date hereof, and forever after, be United into One Kingdom by the Name of GREAT BRITAIN."

"So it would seem Naples that everyone else in the world gets that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is made up of 4 countries... They get that Scotland is a different country and nation from England.. they they have their own customs and language, government and law." It doesn't seem that way to me, since the UN, NOC, EU, NATO, WTO and World Court all don't.

"So the only reasons I can see that you aren't getting this is because

a. You are having problems grasping the concept of 4 countries forming a union... in which case there is not much point in me carrying on this discussion because I don't know how to spell it out more simply.

b. You are just being stubborn and refusing to accept that you are wrong (based on past behaviour most likely). In which case there is not much point in carrying on this discussion either because you will always continue to be wrong but refuse to accept it.

c. Your definition of country and nation is so vastly different from the rest of the worlds and is purely based on a 'state' (based on your apparent loathing of the state and its communist overtones, unlikely). But if this is the case please provide a definition of both in political terms and I will be happy discuss further." I see Nation=Sovereign State=Country. We disagree on definitions. I use the legal and you use a colloquial.
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