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meccalecca
Voice of Reason
Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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- #361
- Posted: 08/07/2016 13:56
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| Allabaster wrote: | | To me it sounds like a mechanism to help cynical white people further gum up the wheels of a system which barely limps along as it is due to the stubborn idealistic fantasies of wingnuts who aren't even going to be affected by most of the policies that they self-righteously protest. |
That's a very cynical perspective
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alelsupreme
Awful.
Gender: Male
Age: 27
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- #362
- Posted: 08/07/2016 15:45
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Or shit how about reforming things so that there's viable candidates outside the Democrats and Republicans? Adopting PR and abolishing the Electoral College would go a long way.
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| Romanelli wrote: | | We're all fucked, lads. |
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Allabaster
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- #363
- Posted: 08/07/2016 15:58
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| meccalecca wrote: | | That's a very cynical perspective |
While I think anyone can be forgiven a little cynicism in the current climate of American politics, proposing the introduction of obstructionism into the electoral process is considerably moreso.
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Allabaster
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- #364
- Posted: 08/07/2016 17:43
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| alelsupreme wrote: | | Or shit how about reforming things so that there's viable candidates outside the Democrats and Republicans? |
There is nothing in the rules of the system that prevents third party candidates from winning presidential elections, it is only the perception that they cannot win that holds them back in the electoral process. Instead of electing third-party candidates, what usually happens in practice is that if people are not happy with the "standard" party line of either of the major political parties, then they support a non-standard candidate in the primaries who will change that party line. In fact, that happened in both major parties in this election cycle, leaving the USA in the odd and unfortunate situation where both candidates support protectionism.
| Quote: | | Adopting PR and abolishing the Electoral College would go a long way. |
This is a very sticky issue, unfortunately. When the various states of the union originally united in the 18th century, there was a lot of debate over how much power each state should have and whether it should be strictly proportional to their population. Small states were concerned that proportional representation would give them too little influence over the larger government and the electoral college was one of the compromises that was designed to entice small states to join the union.
While the distinction between popular vote and electoral vote did end up being important in the 2000 election, I do not think it makes a great deal of difference in the long run. Most American presidents win both the popular and electoral votes. I do, however, think it is important for the government of a country as large and diverse as the USA to have a non-proportional component (the Senate, in this case).
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason
Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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- #365
- Posted: 08/13/2016 17:15
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| Allabaster wrote: | | While I think anyone can be forgiven a little cynicism in the current climate of American politics, proposing the introduction of obstructionism into the electoral process is considerably moreso. |
Isn't obstructionism already a part of the electoral process. The bulk of the reasoning we continue to hear in regards to voting for the two current major candidates is that the opposing candidate is godawful. Many support Trump simply because they hate Hillary and vice-versa.
This isn't to say that adding an extra degree of obstructionism would actually help. It'd probably just turn into an additional mess.
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Allabaster
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- #366
- Posted: 08/13/2016 20:32
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| meccalecca wrote: | Isn't obstructionism already a part of the electoral process. The bulk of the reasoning we continue to hear in regards to voting for the two current major candidates is that the opposing candidate is godawful. Many support Trump simply because they hate Hillary and vice-versa.
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Choosing between the options in front of you does not obstruct the process in any way, regardless of the reasons for your choice.
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Skinny
birdman_handrub.gif
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- #367
- Posted: 08/14/2016 02:13
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| Allabaster wrote: | | meccalecca wrote: | Isn't obstructionism already a part of the electoral process. The bulk of the reasoning we continue to hear in regards to voting for the two current major candidates is that the opposing candidate is godawful. Many support Trump simply because they hate Hillary and vice-versa.
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Choosing between the options in front of you does not obstruct the process in any way, regardless of the reasons for your choice. |
Being deliberately vague on the internet, and shying away from sharing your actual opinions, is completely reprehensible. Enjoy your life though dawg.
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Allabaster
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- #368
- Posted: 08/14/2016 02:28
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| Skinny wrote: |
Being deliberately vague on the internet, and shying away from sharing your actual opinions, is completely reprehensible. Enjoy your life though dawg. |
I do not see what is vague about what I just said. Voting is not obstructionist, by any reasonable definition of obstructionism. Period.
What is your opinion, mr. high horse?
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #369
- Posted: 08/21/2016 05:39
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In my opinion these things need to change in American government:
1) Term limits for Senators and Representatives
2) Presidential elections should not be majority wins
3) Money is removed from the political process or is at least limited (corporations are limited to the legislation they can write)
To my knowledge, Germany works like this: you vote the party and if a party only gets 5% of the vote, they still get representation in Bundestag. Sure it might only be two seats and they have to get coalitions to get what they want, but at least they have a some kind of voice. If your party wins the popular vote, then your party elects the Chancellor. This way, when an American votes independent, Green, or Libertarian, their voice at least counts. Majority wins... well even if they garnish 40% of the votes, they still lose everything in a presidential election.
I totally feel like America is moving towards the left side of the cycle. This is terrible for me to say, but I kinda hope America hits that left side hard, and becomes a better country.
Last edited by RoundTheBend on 08/21/2016 05:49; edited 1 time in total
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #370
- Posted: 08/21/2016 05:43
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| meccalecca wrote: |
I'm afraid reality is Hillary vs Trump vs non vote. I really wish there was a none of the above option in which if a certain % of the population chose it, the process would have to restart with both major candidates removed from the race. |
Me likey.
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