9-11 Was an inside job. - Politics & Religion

junodog4
Future Grumpy Old Man

Gender: Male
Location: Calgary

GARY wrote:

junodog4 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Any argument is extremely convincing if you choose to only look at evidence that supports your opinion.

Thank you for the lesson.

Now, did you have an opinion on the topic of this thread or do you now wish 2 inform me how

ANYTHING

IN

ANY

Of those videos is a lie?

I will be waiting junodog4 Very Happy

.

I never said any of it was a lie. I just wonder if you're looking at everything, or just what supports your view. Arguments become really convincing if you stack up one side, while ignoring the other. People do it all the time, including those on both sides of the 9/11 debate. Just look at climate change - those who blame it on cows vs those who think it'll end the world tomorrow.

My opinion - there's aspects of it that look fishy, and I'm sure it's not all as it seems, but I'm inclined to believe the premise that third world poverty, global oil politics, and Western lifestyle pissed off enough radical fundamentalists to pull something like this off. If the government was looking for an excuse to go to war, they didn't need to do something as big as 9/11. Just look at the Gulf of Tonkin incident. That said, I'm open-minded - I don't think people are idiots if they disagree with me. Many of your videos are quite interesting - worthy of a second look.

GARY

junodog4 wrote:

GARY wrote:

junodog4 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Any argument is extremely convincing if you choose to only look at evidence that supports your opinion.

Thank you for the lesson.

Now, did you have an opinion on the topic of this thread or do you now wish 2 inform me how

ANYTHING

IN

ANY

Of those videos is a lie?

I will be waiting junodog4 Very Happy

.

I never said any of it was a lie. I just wonder if you're looking at everything, or just what supports your view. Arguments become really convincing if you stack up one side, while ignoring the other. People do it all the time, including those on both sides of the 9/11 debate. Just look at climate change - those who blame it on cows vs those who think it'll end the world tomorrow.

My opinion - there's aspects of it that look fishy, and I'm sure it's not all as it seems, but I'm inclined to believe the premise that third world poverty, global oil politics, and Western lifestyle pissed off enough radical fundamentalists to pull something like this off. If the government was looking for an excuse to go to war, they didn't need to do something as big as 9/11. Just look at the Gulf of Tonkin incident. That said, I'm open-minded - I don't think people are idiots if they disagree with me. Many of your videos are quite interesting - worthy of a second look.

I understand people thinking that 9/11 happened because America is free and rich etc.

But I ask you this then.

Why did they not attack Switzerland, Sweden, or Germany, just 2 name a few.
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I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

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junodog4
Future Grumpy Old Man

Gender: Male
Location: Calgary

I don't think that America was attacked because it is free. Rich? Maybe. The World Trade Centre and Pentagon are symbols of power and wealth, not freedom. I'd suggest that it's because of America's Middle East policy (Israel, Gulf War I, support/puppeteering of oil rich Gulf States), but mostly because of what America represented. America is the biggest kid on the block, hence, if you want to prove yourself, take down the States... Further, to fanatic Islamists, America represents the worst of the West - everything that fundamental Islam is against - (greed, lust, gluttony, etc...). Just look at Dubai - it is more like Vegas than like Mecca, due to the American influence on the oil industry.

Why not Sweden or Switzerland? They don't have the global influence and military might to attract attention. Germany? Economically, sure - but no military presence, and they are a little more subtle globally. If not the States, UK might have been the next best target, but these days, China, India and Russia are becoming bigger players (though no stranger to terrorism - India and Russia are hit all the time).

America isn't what the fundamentalists think it is. It's a shame that perception can matter so much, even when deviated from reality.

I still think 9/11 has some fishy bits... but I'm inclined to believe that there is no massive conspiracy.

GARY

junodog4 wrote:

I don't think that America was attacked because it is free. Rich? Maybe. The World Trade Centre and Pentagon are symbols of power and wealth, not freedom. I'd suggest that it's because of America's Middle East policy (Israel, Gulf War I, support/puppeteering of oil rich Gulf States), but mostly because of what America represented. America is the biggest kid on the block, hence, if you want to prove yourself, take down the States... Further, to fanatic Islamists, America represents the worst of the West - everything that fundamental Islam is against - (greed, lust, gluttony, etc...). Just look at Dubai - it is more like Vegas than like Mecca, due to the American influence on the oil industry.

Why not Sweden or Switzerland? They don't have the global influence and military might to attract attention. Germany? Economically, sure - but no military presence, and they are a little more subtle globally. If not the States, UK might have been the next best target, but these days, China, India and Russia are becoming bigger players (though no stranger to terrorism - India and Russia are hit all the time).

America isn't what the fundamentalists think it is. It's a shame that perception can matter so much, even when deviated from reality.

I still think 9/11 has some fishy bits... but I'm inclined to believe that there is no massive conspiracy.

Firstly I would just like 2 say that NO NATION has had a terrorism problem anywhere near what Israel has had 2 endure.

Secondly, why do you call the act of simply questioning a government (who has been proven 2 have lied many times about many things) a "massive conspiracy" ?

Lastly I would like 2 point out that there is another side 2 the coin.

You asked me if I am " looking at everything".

Well, why are the major media outlets not "looking for everything"

Be honest with yourself, if someone even hints that there might be anything questionable about the "official" story of what occurred on that day, on any of the major networks, they will probably be stopped dead in their tracks, and then one or more of the following will follow. They will be laughed at, called crazy, considered unAmerican and not a patriot but a military hater, blackballed from Hollywood, or worse.

It is I in fact who DOES HAVE THE OPEN MIND.

Think about it if you would please Very Happy

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_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

junodog4
Future Grumpy Old Man

Gender: Male
Location: Calgary

GARY wrote:

junodog4 wrote:

I don't think that America was attacked because it is free. Rich? Maybe. The World Trade Centre and Pentagon are symbols of power and wealth, not freedom. I'd suggest that it's because of America's Middle East policy (Israel, Gulf War I, support/puppeteering of oil rich Gulf States), but mostly because of what America represented. America is the biggest kid on the block, hence, if you want to prove yourself, take down the States... Further, to fanatic Islamists, America represents the worst of the West - everything that fundamental Islam is against - (greed, lust, gluttony, etc...). Just look at Dubai - it is more like Vegas than like Mecca, due to the American influence on the oil industry.

Why not Sweden or Switzerland? They don't have the global influence and military might to attract attention. Germany? Economically, sure - but no military presence, and they are a little more subtle globally. If not the States, UK might have been the next best target, but these days, China, India and Russia are becoming bigger players (though no stranger to terrorism - India and Russia are hit all the time).

America isn't what the fundamentalists think it is. It's a shame that perception can matter so much, even when deviated from reality.

I still think 9/11 has some fishy bits... but I'm inclined to believe that there is no massive conspiracy.

Firstly I would just like 2 say that NO NATION has had a terrorism problem anywhere near what Israel has had 2 endure.

Secondly, why do you call the act of simply questioning a government (who has been proven 2 have lied many times about many things) a "massive conspiracy" ?

Lastly I would like 2 point out that there is another side 2 the coin.

You asked me if I am " looking at everything".

Well, why are the major media outlets not "looking for everything"

Be honest with yourself, if someone even hints that there might be anything questionable about the "official" story of what occurred on that day, on any of the major networks, they will probably be stopped dead in their tracks, and then one or more of the following will follow. They will be laughed at, called crazy, considered unAmerican and not a patriot but a military hater, blackballed from Hollywood, or worse.

It is I in fact who DOES HAVE THE OPEN MIND.

Think about it if you would please Very Happy

.

India and Russia have had it pretty bad, but I'd agree - Israel has it's hands full. They've got to deal with Palestinians, Orthodox Jews, and outside Arab aggression. It depends on your definition of terrorism. Even Norway isn't immune...

I didn't say that questioning the government meant a massive conspiracy. I said that I didn't think there was a massive conspiracy with 9/11. Question away. Every government lies at some point. Every organization lies at some point. Doesn't make it right... but we shouldn't limit our questioning to just the federal government.
Major media should be held to a high standard. They don't question enough, and buy into the company line too often. They are easily influenced by the government, the Democrats (CNN) and Republicans (FOX), are owned by transnational corporations (except PBS) and are swayed by lobby groups. I wouldn't call them a pack of liars, but... Citizens have a responsibility to educate themselves beyond the mainstream media. However, there is a lot of unaccountable opinion on the internet which can lead one astray. Meh... it's not easy. I'd say that our society celebrate uniformed opinion too often.

I have not made up my mind... but I'm not out to change yours. I just don't think 9/11 was orchestrated by the government - I'm sure we're not told the whole story, but I don't think it goes as deep as your information implies. Think

Go Flyers go. Dave Poulin was my childhood hero.

GARY

junodog4 wrote:

GARY wrote:

junodog4 wrote:

I don't think that America was attacked because it is free. Rich? Maybe. The World Trade Centre and Pentagon are symbols of power and wealth, not freedom. I'd suggest that it's because of America's Middle East policy (Israel, Gulf War I, support/puppeteering of oil rich Gulf States), but mostly because of what America represented. America is the biggest kid on the block, hence, if you want to prove yourself, take down the States... Further, to fanatic Islamists, America represents the worst of the West - everything that fundamental Islam is against - (greed, lust, gluttony, etc...). Just look at Dubai - it is more like Vegas than like Mecca, due to the American influence on the oil industry.

Why not Sweden or Switzerland? They don't have the global influence and military might to attract attention. Germany? Economically, sure - but no military presence, and they are a little more subtle globally. If not the States, UK might have been the next best target, but these days, China, India and Russia are becoming bigger players (though no stranger to terrorism - India and Russia are hit all the time).

America isn't what the fundamentalists think it is. It's a shame that perception can matter so much, even when deviated from reality.

I still think 9/11 has some fishy bits... but I'm inclined to believe that there is no massive conspiracy.

Firstly I would just like 2 say that NO NATION has had a terrorism problem anywhere near what Israel has had 2 endure.

Secondly, why do you call the act of simply questioning a government (who has been proven 2 have lied many times about many things) a "massive conspiracy" ?

Lastly I would like 2 point out that there is another side 2 the coin.

You asked me if I am " looking at everything".

Well, why are the major media outlets not "looking for everything"

Be honest with yourself, if someone even hints that there might be anything questionable about the "official" story of what occurred on that day, on any of the major networks, they will probably be stopped dead in their tracks, and then one or more of the following will follow. They will be laughed at, called crazy, considered unAmerican and not a patriot but a military hater, blackballed from Hollywood, or worse.

It is I in fact who DOES HAVE THE OPEN MIND.

Think about it if you would please Very Happy

.

India and Russia have had it pretty bad, but I'd agree - Israel has it's hands full. They've got to deal with Palestinians, Orthodox Jews, and outside Arab aggression. It depends on your definition of terrorism. Even Norway isn't immune...

I didn't say that questioning the government meant a massive conspiracy. I said that I didn't think there was a massive conspiracy with 9/11. Question away. Every government lies at some point. Every organization lies at some point. Doesn't make it right... but we shouldn't limit our questioning to just the federal government.
Major media should be held to a high standard. They don't question enough, and buy into the company line too often. They are easily influenced by the government, the Democrats (CNN) and Republicans (FOX), are owned by transnational corporations (except PBS) and are swayed by lobby groups. I wouldn't call them a pack of liars, but... Citizens have a responsibility to educate themselves beyond the mainstream media. However, there is a lot of unaccountable opinion on the internet which can lead one astray. Meh... it's not easy. I'd say that our society celebrate uniformed opinion too often.

I have not made up my mind... but I'm not out to change yours. I just don't think 9/11 was orchestrated by the government - I'm sure we're not told the whole story, but I don't think it goes as deep as your information implies. Think

Go Flyers go. Dave Poulin was my childhood hero.

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

This was mine Very Happy

Actually, they were teammates for a few seasons Think

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

GARY

.

I am 100% sure that It was.
_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums

Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible

Um... if I may...

What exactly did the Illuminati have to gain by blowing up the World Trade Center?

"Well, you see, they wanted to have something which would convince Congress to let them go to war with Afghanistan."

Oh, I see. But... Congress was against the war effort. Yet, Bush went through with it anyway.

"Yeah."

Well, if he was PLANNING ON DOING IT ANYWAY, WITH OT WITHOUT CONGRESS' SUPPORT, why even bother and waste time blowing up the WTC? He was going to wage war against Afghanistan anyway.

"Yeah, well, they needed it to be a war the public supported."

The government didn't really spend a lot of time wondering the public supported it when they went into Vietnam in the 60's. Or, even better, when Bush went into Iraq a couple years after Afghanistan. Over half the country was opposed to the idea, that didn't seem to stop him.

"We have to stop the Illuminati. They're trying to control us."

What? The Illuminati? You mean the guys who are supposedly in league with the Rockefellers? The guys who also supposedly own, according to you, ALL mainstream media, pretty much every seat in Congress AND the international education system, as well as the UN? The guys who also apparently have control of the current seat of office and thus have the American military under there control? Seems like if they REALLY wanted to control our every action, by know they'd already be doing it. I mean, they own pretty much everything, supposedly. Their motivation just doesn't seem clear. You'd also think they'd be airtight about their super-secrets and not allow them to fall into the hands Joe Blow on the interweb. What are their motives, anyway? Nothing they do seems to really follow any sort of streamline logic, it appears to just be all over the place.

For what's APPARENTLY the most powerful supergroup in the world, they sure are incompetent.
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jbarajas

Gender: Male
Age: 34
Location: Wisconsin

Jackwc wrote:

Um... if I may...

What exactly did the Illuminati have to gain by blowing up the World Trade Center?

"Well, you see, they wanted to have something which would convince Congress to let them go to war with Afghanistan."

Oh, I see. But... Congress was against the war effort. Yet, Bush went through with it anyway.

"Yeah."

Well, if he was PLANNING ON DOING IT ANYWAY, WITH OT WITHOUT CONGRESS' SUPPORT, why even bother and waste time blowing up the WTC? He was going to wage war against Afghanistan anyway.

"Yeah, well, they needed it to be a war the public supported."

The government didn't really spend a lot of time wondering the public supported it when they went into Vietnam in the 60's. Or, even better, when Bush went into Iraq a couple years after Afghanistan. Over half the country was opposed to the idea, that didn't seem to stop him.

"We have to stop the Illuminati. They're trying to control us."

What? The Illuminati? You mean the guys who are supposedly in league with the Rockefellers? The guys who also supposedly own, according to you, ALL mainstream media, pretty much every seat in Congress AND the international education system, as well as the UN? The guys who also apparently have control of the current seat of office and thus have the American military under there control? Seems like if they REALLY wanted to control our every action, by know they'd already be doing it. I mean, they own pretty much everything, supposedly. Their motivation just doesn't seem clear. You'd also think they'd be airtight about their super-secrets and not allow them to fall into the hands Joe Blow on the interweb. What are their motives, anyway? Nothing they do seems to really follow any sort of streamline logic, it appears to just be all over the place.

For what's APPARENTLY the most powerful supergroup in the world, they sure are incompetent.

dayuuuuuuum! Cool

GARY

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"The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated over and over." - Adolph Hitler

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

Last edited by GARY on 02/10/2012 07:01; edited 1 time in total