1 And Jesus went out of the Temple, and on the way his disciples came to him, pointing out the buildings of the Temple. 2 But he, answering, said to them, See you not all these things? truly I say to you that here there will not be one stone resting on another, which will not be pulled down.
3 And while he was seated on the Mountain of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, Make clear to us, when will these things be? and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus said to them in answer, Take care that you are not tricked. 5 For people will come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and a number will be turned from the true way through them. 6 And news will come to you of wars and talk of wars: do not be troubled, for these things have to be; but it is still not the end. 7 For nation will be moved against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and men will be without food, and the earth will be shaking in different places; 8 But all these things are the first of the troubles.
9 Then they will be cruel to you, and will put you to death: and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. 10 And numbers of people will be turned from the right way, and will give one another up and have hate for one another. 11 And a number of false prophets will come, causing error. 12 And because wrongdoing will be increased, the love of most people will become cold. 13 But he who goes through to the end will get salvation. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be given through all the world for a witness to all nations; and then the end will come.
15 When, then, you see in the holy place the unclean thing which makes destruction, of which word was given by Daniel the prophet (let this be clear to the reader), 16 Then let those who are in Judaea go in flight to the mountains: 17 Let not him who is on the house-top go down to take anything out of his house: 18 And let not him who is in the field go back to get his coat. 19 But it will be hard for women who are with child and for those with babies at the breast in those days. 20 And say a prayer that your flight may not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21 Because in those days there will be great sorrow, such as there has not been from the start of the world till now, or ever will be. 22 And if those days had not been made short there would have been no salvation for any, but because of the saints those days will be made short. 23 Then if any man says to you, See, here is the Christ, or, Here; do not put faith in him; 24 For there will come up false Christs, and false prophets, who will do great signs and wonders; so that if possible even the saints might be tricked. 25 See, I have made it clear to you before it comes about. 26 If, then, they say to you, See, he is in the waste land; go not out: See, he is in the inner rooms; put no faith in it. 27 Because as in a thunderstorm the bright light coming from the east is seen even in the west; so will be the coming of the Son of man. 28 Wherever the dead body is, there will the eagles come together.
29 But straight away, after the trouble of those days, the sun will be made dark and the moon will not give her light and the stars will come down from heaven and the powers of heaven will be moved: 30 And then the sign of the Son of man will be seen in heaven: and then all the nations of the earth will have sorrow, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great sound of a horn, and they will get his saints together from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now take an example from the fig-tree: when her branch has become soft and puts out its leaves, you are certain that the summer is near; 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you may be certain that he is near, even at the doors. 34 Truly I say to you, This generation will not come to an end till all these things are complete. 35 Heaven and earth will come to an end, but my words will not come to an end.
36 But of that day and hour no one has knowledge, not even the angels in heaven, or the Son, but the Father only. 37 And as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. 38 Because as in those days before the overflowing of the waters, they were feasting and taking wives and getting married, till the day when Noah went into the ark, 39 And they had no care till the waters came and took them all away; so will be the coming of the Son of man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one is taken, and one let go; 41 Two women will be crushing grain; one is taken, and one let go.
42 Be watching, then! for you have no knowledge on what day your Lord will come. 43 But be certain of this, that if the master of the house had had knowledge of the time when the thief was coming, he would have been watching, and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Be ready then; for at a time which you have no thought of the Son of man will come.
45 Who is the true and wise servant, whom his lord has put over those in his house, to give them their food at the right time? 46 A blessing on that servant, who will be doing so when his lord comes. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will put him over all he has. 48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, My lord is a long time in coming; 49 And is cruel to the other servants, taking his pleasure with those who are overcome with wine; 50 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he is not looking for him, and in an hour of which he has no knowledge, 51 And will have him cut in two, and will give him a part in the fate of the false ones: there will be weeping and cries of sorrow.
Luke 21
1 And looking up, he saw the men of wealth putting their offerings in the money-box. 2 And he saw a certain poor widow putting in a farthing. 3 And he said, Truly I say to you, This poor widow has given more than all of them: 4 For they gave out of their wealth, having more than enough for themselves: but she, even out of her need, has put in all her living.
5 And some were talking about the Temple, how it was made fair with beautiful stones and with offerings, but he said, 6 As for these things which you see, the days will come when not one stone will be resting on another, but all will be broken down.
7 And they said to him, Master, when will these things be? and what sign will there be when these events are to take place? 8 And he said, Take care that you are not tricked: for a number of people will come in my name, saying, I am he; and, The time is near: do not go after them. 9 And when news of wars and troubled times comes to your ears, have no fear; for these things have to be, but the end will not be now.
10 Then he said to them, Nation will be moved against nation and kingdom against kingdom: 11 There will be great earth-shocks and outbursts of disease in a number of places, and men will be without food; and there will be wonders and great signs from heaven.
12 But before all this, they will take you and be very cruel to you, giving you up to the Synagogues and to prisons, taking you before kings and rulers, because of my name. 13 And it will be turned to a witness for you. 14 So take care not to be troubled before the time comes, about what answers you will give: 15 For I will give you words and wisdom, so that not one of those who are against you will be able to get the better of you, or to put you in the wrong. 16 But you will be given up even by your fathers and mothers, your brothers and relations and friends; and some of you will be put to death. 17 And you will be hated by all men, because of me. 18 But not a hair of your head will come to destruction. 19 By going through all these things, you will keep your lives.
20 But when you see armies all round about Jerusalem, then be certain that her destruction is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judaea go in flight to the mountains; and those who are in the middle of the town go out; and let not those who are in the country come in. 22 For these are the days of punishment, in which all the things in the Writings will be put into effect. 23 It will be hard for women who are with child, and for her with a baby at the breast, in those days. For great trouble will come on the land, and wrath on this people. 24 And they will be put to death with the sword, and will be taken as prisoners into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be crushed under the feet of the Gentiles, till the times of the Gentiles are complete.
25 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and on the earth, fear among the nations and doubt because of the loud noise of the sea and the waves; 26 Men's strength will go from them in fear and in waiting for the things which are coming on the earth; for the powers of the heavens will be moved. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud, with power and great glory. 28 But when these things come about, let your heads be lifted up, because your salvation is near.
29 And he made a story for them: See the fig-tree, and all the trees; 30 When they put out their young leaves, you take note of it, and it is clear to you that summer is coming. 31 In the same way, when you see these things taking place you may be certain that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Truly I say to you, This generation will not come to an end till all things are complete. 33 Heaven and earth will come to an end, but my words will not come to an end.
34 But give attention to yourselves, for fear that your hearts become over-full of the pleasures of food and wine, and the cares of this life, and that day may come on you suddenly, and take you as in a net: 35 For so it will come on all those who are living on the face of all the earth. 36 But keep watch at all times with prayer, that you may be strong enough to come through all these things and take your place before the Son of man.
37 And every day he was teaching in the Temple and every night he went out to the mountain which is named the Mountain of Olives to take his rest. 38 And all the people came early in the morning to give ear to his words in the Temple.
. _________________ .
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.
From my paltry knowledge of both science and religion it seems to me that there is no actual conflict between science and religion. The much hyped Galilieo story has little basis in truth- the pope actually liked his stuff. The royal college disagreed with him, and used "religion" as an excuse. And yet this is always pointed to as there being some sort of incompatiblity between God and evolution.
The Bible is not a science textbook, and does not pretend to be. it doesn't say that the world is 6,000 years old (some guy wanted to figure out the worlds age but he didn't do it right) it doesn't have a chapter on gravity, or the human eye, etc. It is NOT all about science. Science, unlike religion, is ever changing. God allowed humans to figure this stuff out on our own. I believe firmly in God AND science. There is no conflict at all. However, if Science "proves" that there is no God (it couldn't) than i shall side with God over science. until then, there is no reason not to follow both.
I think the conflict between science and religion is very real. It stems from the religious believing that the natural world can be attributed to intelligent design, and the scientific believing that the natural world can be attributed to process without the need of the hypothesis of god.
I think the conflict between science and religion is very real. It stems from the religious believing that the natural world can be attributed to intelligent design, and the scientific believing that the natural world can be attributed to process without the need of the hypothesis of god.
But my point was that all of science can be included in some way or another under religion. Intelligent design would involve exactly the same process detailed by scientists.
So if you're purely scientific you could also be extremely religious, and vice versa.
All I meant by "not real" was that it does not seem necessary to pit science vs religion.
But you have accurately summed up the differences well.
I think the conflict between science and religion is very real. It stems from the religious believing that the natural world can be attributed to intelligent design, and the scientific believing that the natural world can be attributed to process without the need of the hypothesis of god.
But my point was that all of science can be included in some way or another under religion. Intelligent design would involve exactly the same process detailed by scientists.
So if you're purely scientific you could also be extremely religious, and vice versa.
All I meant by "not real" was that it does not seem necessary to pit science vs religion.
But you have accurately summed up the differences well.
So then ZebraRock, do you believe in creation or evolution _________________ .
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.
There's no reason to imagine that they're mutually exclusive. If God wanted to create living things, what better way than to have them evolve and adapt to their climates?
The Old Testament is poetic (While the New Testament is literal), there are lots of examples of metaphors and difficult to understand phrasing. Nothing in Genesis agrees with evolution, but by its tricky to interpret nature I'm not sure anything disagrees with it.
So for now I'll believe in evolution, but its still just a theory. I'll believe in it until science comes up with something better (if they do). But my belief in God's creation is constant.
Sorry I answered your question with about 3x more text than necessary!
I think the conflict between science and religion is very real. It stems from the religious believing that the natural world can be attributed to intelligent design, and the scientific believing that the natural world can be attributed to process without the need of the hypothesis of god.
But my point was that all of science can be included in some way or another under religion. Intelligent design would involve exactly the same process detailed by scientists.
So if you're purely scientific you could also be extremely religious, and vice versa.
All I meant by "not real" was that it does not seem necessary to pit science vs religion.
But you have accurately summed up the differences well.
perhaps I was a little hasty there, actually. Maybe a more fundamental statement would suggest that the conflict stems from the religious not requiring observable phenomena to describe process and the scientific requiring direct or remote observation to describe process.
I can see how someone might attribute processes, including those of evolution if the bible isn't read too literally, to an initial divine spark, perhaps with divine intervention throughout time, but that would require the unobservable. Of course, human powers of observation are easily contested and rightfully so, but that doesn't require that we call in a god... we just admit we can't observe it or understand it fully yet. I think this train of thought comes naturally since we can observe our powers of observation getting better (e.g. Virgil describes the spontaneous generation of bees in the carcasses of livestock, centuries later we know they're born from larvae that the bees place in the carcass). Perhaps they're getting better at a logarithmic rate, but they're getting better. I ramble
Back to the conflict... Because science (at least the modern definition) requires observation of repeatable results and religion requires faith in the unobservable, the two naturally conflict. Of course, anyone will reconcile anything the want to to get through life happily, but the definitions we've set forth for these two concepts, and the implications that fall out of each, are at odds.
At the same time, I would argue that there is no human who fits into these extremes, and that we all have different ratios of religious belief and scientific thought within us. Though people may not believe in a god and require observable phenomena to prove truth, religion is still engrained in them because of the ubiquitous moral and societal codes set forth by religions; and though people may believe fully in a god, they cannot deny the gifts that have fallen out of the scientific method (e.g. god did not create the television, the atom bomb, the cure for polio, etc.).
just some thoughts, probably incomplete, but there's a few minutes meditation
I think the conflict between science and religion is very real. It stems from the religious believing that the natural world can be attributed to intelligent design, and the scientific believing that the natural world can be attributed to process without the need of the hypothesis of god.
But my point was that all of science can be included in some way or another under religion. Intelligent design would involve exactly the same process detailed by scientists.
So if you're purely scientific you could also be extremely religious, and vice versa.
All I meant by "not real" was that it does not seem necessary to pit science vs religion.
But you have accurately summed up the differences well.
perhaps I was a little hasty there, actually. Maybe a more fundamental statement would suggest that the conflict stems from the religious not requiring observable phenomena to describe process and the scientific requiring direct or remote observation to describe process.
I can see how someone might attribute processes, including those of evolution if the bible isn't read too literally, to an initial divine spark, perhaps with divine intervention throughout time, but that would require the unobservable. Of course, human powers of observation are easily contested and rightfully so, but that doesn't require that we call in a god... we just admit we can't observe it or understand it fully yet. I think this train of thought comes naturally since we can observe our powers of observation getting better (e.g. Virgil describes the spontaneous generation of bees in the carcasses of livestock, centuries later we know they're born from larvae that the bees place in the carcass). Perhaps they're getting better at a logarithmic rate, but they're getting better. I ramble
Back to the conflict... Because science (at least the modern definition) requires observation of repeatable results and religion requires faith in the unobservable, the two naturally conflict. Of course, anyone will reconcile anything the want to to get through life happily, but the definitions we've set forth for these two concepts, and the implications that fall out of each, are at odds.
At the same time, I would argue that there is no human who fits into these extremes, and that we all have different ratios of religious belief and scientific thought within us. Though people may not believe in a god and require observable phenomena to prove truth, religion is still engrained in them because of the ubiquitous moral and societal codes set forth by religions; and though people may believe fully in a god, they cannot deny the gifts that have fallen out of the scientific method (e.g. god did not create the television, the atom bomb, the cure for polio, etc.).
just some thoughts, probably incomplete, but there's a few minutes meditation
Hey Purple, that's a really good comment. We're having a discution on religion and it hasn't descended into Yo Mama level of stupidty...there's a first for the internet!
Anyways, you're right that Faith and Data Collection are somewhat at odds, and I especially like the third paragraph. Of course, my initial point was Science VS God, bringing the concepts of the Scientific theory and Faith into it makes it even more interesting.
The way I see it, Faith and Observation are like two different tools, sometimes you'll need Faith ( to explain that which Science cannot) and sometimes you'll need to use Observation (to explain anything world related).
What I guess I'm ulitmately trying to say is that the conflict often is about humanity "progressing" from a superstitious belief in God to an intelligent belief in Science.
I think both of us agree that this is wildly simplistic, and not accurate either.
There's no reason to imagine that they're mutually exclusive. If God wanted to create living things, what better way than to have them evolve and adapt to their climates?
The Old Testament is poetic (While the New Testament is literal), there are lots of examples of metaphors and difficult to understand phrasing. Nothing in Genesis agrees with evolution, but by its tricky to interpret nature I'm not sure anything disagrees with it.
So for now I'll believe in evolution, but its still just a theory. I'll believe in it until science comes up with something better (if they do). But my belief in God's creation is constant.
Sorry I answered your question with about 3x more text than necessary!
What, say you, started the universe ?
Is it just a haphazard random collection of billions of galaxy's ?
Where did the first atom come from?
Science states that "you can't get something from nothing"
For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.
So, in your opinion, what was (or who caused) the action that caused the reaction which is the universe?
. _________________ .
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.
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