Dumb Things You've Said About Music - Music

GARY

Personally, I don't "hate" rap. How can I hate something that I don't understand/get?

It's like abstract paintings for example. Another person and I can be in a gallery staring at the same painting. They are overjoyed at how great it is and pointing out all of these things that they see in it and they think it's just the greatest most wonderful thing and they end up buying the painting for some ungodly amount of money. But I'm standing there looking at it shaking my head and looking confused thinking. To me it looks liked somebody puked onto a canvas.
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I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

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Le_Samurai

GARY wrote:

Personally, I don't "hate" rap. How can I hate something that I don't understand/get?

It's like abstract paintings for example. Another person and I can be in a gallery staring at the same painting. They are overjoyed at how great it is and pointing out all of these things that they see in it and they think it's just the greatest most wonderful thing and they end up buying the painting for some ungodly amount of money. But I'm standing there looking at it shaking my head and looking confused thinking. To me it looks liked somebody puked onto a canvas.

yeah, that was my issue. I didn't see the great ability it takes to create create rap lyrics and the production.

Mr. Shankly

Gender: Male
Age: 52
Location: Auburn, Washington

[quote="GARY"][quote="Mr. Shankly"][quote="GARY"]

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Do not worry, I do not include you in being able to relate to me now that I rethink it. I was really just trying to agree with you about SOMETHING for Chrizzzakes.

You probably will never know how people like me feel. It reminds me of a movie I saw long ago about Paul Bunyan and his ax. he was the greatest lumberjack ever and then one day some guy comes along with a new invention. The chainsaw. And it no longer mattered that Paul Bunyan was the greatest lumberjack of all time. He was now obsolete.
.

Well, except for The Beatles and a few other 60's era bands, we probably don't agree on a lot, but that's OK. It's called agreeing to disagree. People reacted to punk very much the same way. People like you probably said, "You mean we don't have to have long guitar solos? We can just play three chords?" Rap is even more revolutionary in the sense that it's taking something somebody already made and remaking it in your own style, image,and voice. In that sense it's like pop art or dadaist art of or any kind of found art. Think of Warhol's soup cans or Duchamp's upside down toilet, for example. I wouldn't say it's like abstract expressionism. Captain Beefheart's music or free / avant garde jazz comes to mind when I think of abstract expressionism. Your analogy is interesting in the sense though, that music taste is ultimately subjective in what one likes and identifies with.

Yes, I play guitar, and yes I've written songs. I don't think it's that hard. It's only hard if you make it hard or have high aspirations that are difficult to reach. If you're inspired creatively, and driven to make music, it's really not that hard to do so. It's keeping that creative fire lit that I suppose is hard.

Last edited by Mr. Shankly on 07/03/2011 03:48; edited 2 times in total

Wombi

GARY wrote:

Do you know how fucking hard it is to play a guitar, drums, piano, bass?

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not very.

Last edited by Wombi on 07/03/2011 03:54; edited 1 time in total

40footwolf

Gender: Male
Age: 33

GARY wrote:

Mr. Shankly wrote:

GARY wrote:

Mr. Shankly wrote:

When I was a teenager in the mid-late 80's and rap or hip hop was first coming into its own, and was starting to permeate the charts, I dismissed it entirely and said, "Rap is not music."

I regret that, and have since learned what an ignorant statement that was. Embarassed

Although it's still not my favorite genre to listen to, I do like some of it. Surprised

I can relate Mr. Shankly. But in our defense, we grew up listening to bands who played guitars and there were drum solo's and guitar solo's and more times than not there wasn't even any keyboards.

To be honest I have, and to a certain extent, I still am redefining what "music" is and is not.

Hey, I'm just an old hippie what can I say Embarassed

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You're speaking for yourself on that second part, Gary. You're a child of the 70's and I'm more a child of the 80's so I think there's a slight difference in what we like in music. You can keep your guitar and drum solos. I'm more of a believer in the punk ethos of less is more, and don't bore us, get to the chorus.

I suppose in a way, early hip hop / rap was similar to punk in its stripped down DIY approach. Here's an amazing fact: New York was an incredible place in the 70's. While punk was being born downtown, hip hop was happening uptown. Both forms of music that would have a profound impact on what was to come next were evolving more or less simultaneously in the same city! Applause

Personally, I liked what happened with music in Seattle in the late 80's on into the mid nineties. Furthermore, maybe rap was big where you were in the mid 80's but in the places I lived nobody listened to rap.

I and my band mates and musician friends watched in horror as rap dig get huge for we saw 2 guys with microphones and another guy spinning albums and people went wild for it but it was a slap in the face to us and others who had practiced playing instruments, training voices, writing songs and lugging gear from gig to gig etc.

Do you play any instruments ?

Do you know how fucking hard it is to play a guitar, drums, piano, bass, or write a good song?

Well, I do. So yes, I have a grudge against rap and hip hop. To me hip hop is still a toy I had when a child.

Do not worry, I do not include you in being able to relate to me now that I rethink it. I was really just trying to agree with you about SOMETHING for Chrizzzakes.

You probably will never know how people like me feel. It reminds me of a movie I saw long ago about Paul Bunyan and his ax. he was the greatest lumberjack ever and then one day some guy comes along with a new invention. The chainsaw. And it no longer mattered that Paul Bunyan was the greatest lumberjack of all time. He was now obsolete.

.

Try thinking of it this way: Do you know how hard it is to produce a great rap song, or to write lyrics that are not only linguistically interesting but flow together well, or to freestyle, or to keep your flow tight? If just anyone could do it and do it well we'd be in a country made of millionaires right now.

Hip-hop/rap isn't an inferior discipline to rock; it's just a different one. Jimmy Page may be an extraordinary guitarist but he wouldn't know how to make a well produced rap song to save his life, the same way The RZA probably can't play the guitar for beans. I have friends in a group that sometimes spend 12 hours a day in the studio for weeks on end and they sure as shit aren't playing with "toys" all that time.

And again, I wouldn't be so quick to martyr rock and roll with that lumberjack analogy, as there's still plenty of great rock and metal coming out. That's the wonderful thing about the 21st century: There really is something for everyone.
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I love all music. It makes you feel like living. Silence is death.

-John Cassavettes

Mr. Shankly

Gender: Male
Age: 52
Location: Auburn, Washington

[quote="Mr. Shankly"][quote="GARY"][quote="Mr. Shankly"][quote="GARY"]

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Yes, I play guitar, and yes I've written songs. I don't think it's that hard. It's only hard if you make it hard or have high aspirations that are difficult to reach. If you're inspired creatively, and driven to make music, it's really not that hard to do so. It's keeping that creative fire lit that I suppose is hard.

Also, that's the whole point of punk and hip hop. Music isn't like taking a test or going up a mountain. In other words, what does difficulty has to do with it? It's about expressing yourself and whether it's picking up a guitar, a microphone, a turntable, it's about doing it yourself and expressing yourself. Anyone can be a musician if they are creative and have something to say in a musical or poetic sense.

GARY

Jhereko wrote:

GARY wrote:

Do you know how fucking hard it is to play a guitar, drums, piano, bass?

.

not very.

Not very hey Jhereko

Well, this is the say stupid things about music thread so at least you are on topic.
_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

Wombi

GARY wrote:

Jhereko wrote:

GARY wrote:

Do you know how fucking hard it is to play a guitar, drums, piano, bass?

.

not very.

Not very hey Jhereko

Well, this is the say stupid things about music thread so at least you are on topic.

that doesn't make it untrue. I think it's hard to play on the level of Fripp or Levin or Bruford (I guess anyone who's been in King Crimson ever Laughing

) But look at the amount of bands that exist at the moment, absolutely fucking thousands - because it's not hard to play an instrument. Now as for the songwriting part that's a whole different question (but then that affects hip-hop as well).

GARY

[quote="Mr. Shankly"][quote="GARY"][quote="Mr. Shankly"]

GARY wrote:

Mr. Shankly wrote:

Do not worry, I do not include you in being able to relate to me now that I rethink it. I was really just trying to agree with you about SOMETHING for Chrizzzakes.

You probably will never know how people like me feel. It reminds me of a movie I saw long ago about Paul Bunyan and his ax. he was the greatest lumberjack ever and then one day some guy comes along with a new invention. The chainsaw. And it no longer mattered that Paul Bunyan was the greatest lumberjack of all time. He was now obsolete.
.

Well, except for The Beatles and a few other 60's era bands, we probably don't agree on a lot, but that's OK. It's called agreeing to disagree. People reacted to punk very much the same way. People like you probably said, "You mean we don't have to have long guitar solos? We can just play three chords?" Rap is even more revolutionary in the sense that it's taking something somebody already made and remaking it in your own style, image,and voice. In that sense it's like pop art or dadaist art of or any kind of found art. Think of Warhol's soup cans or Duchamp's upside down toilet, for example. I wouldn't say it's like abstract expressionism. Captain Beefheart's music or free / avant garde jazz comes to mind when I think of abstract expressionism. Your analogy is interesting in the sense though, that music taste is ultimately subjective in what one likes and identifies with.

Yes, I play guitar, and yes I've written songs. I don't think it's that hard. It's only hard if you make it hard or have high aspirations that are difficult to reach. If you're inspired creatively, and driven to make music, it's really not that hard to do so. It's keeping that creative fire lit that I suppose is hard.

Makes sense to me. I think you hit on something that gives me more insight personally .

I'm a perfectionist and so just "playing" an instrument yes, I agree is not really that hard for most. But to really play an instrument where you can change people's emotions is different IMO than just "playing" it. Does that make any sense?

Also, I learned early in life how to read and write music. Now if you say that is easy then your a better man than I. At times I filled in on an instrument for a band in my studio and had to very quickly find the vibe, groove, key, time signature, changes, etc. That is not easy for me but then again, I'm a perfectionist and in truth, it's never good enough for me.

people have said to me "it doesn't have to be perfect" Ah, I'm rambling now but this particular subject is important to me.
_________________
.
I owe $100,000 and wasted 4 years of my life.

And all I got was this silly hat

.

Mr. Shankly

Gender: Male
Age: 52
Location: Auburn, Washington

Jhereko wrote:

GARY wrote:

Jhereko wrote:

GARY wrote:

Do you know how fucking hard it is to play a guitar, drums, piano, bass?

.

not very.

Not very hey Jhereko

Well, this is the say stupid things about music thread so at least you are on topic.

that doesn't make it untrue. I think it's hard to play on the level of Fripp or Levin or Bruford (I guess anyone who's been in King Crimson ever Laughing

) But look at the amount of bands that exist at the moment, absolutely fucking thousands - because it's not hard to play an instrument. Now as for the songwriting part that's a whole different question (but then that affects hip-hop as well).

The secret to good songwriting has a lot to do with the creative fire within. It's about trusting yourself, learning to listen to and observe the world around you as well as the voice within. Most of all though, it's about creative drive and the willingness to sit and work at your craft.