I thought, you know what, what is it that really differentiates rock artists ( examples Pink Floyd, Rush, Jimi Hendrix) vs. pop artists (examples Madonna, Kendrick Lamar and other modern stars, maybe even Fleetwood Mac kinda) and why are rock artists struggling to compete with pop artists nowadays.
O.K. so then I had an epiphany. I thought, maybe the core difference between rock artists and pop artists is complexity vs. simplicity. Pink Floyd, Rush, and Jimi Hendrix are obviously all very complicated and heady if you listen to them, while when I looked at a 2015-2016 chart hits handbook, I found pages of major triads and hardly a flat or sharp in sight. This basically mean to me that the music is simple.
Then I thought maybe simplicity is what people want. Jazz and Classical Music are famously complex (lots of flats and sharps on the page, for example) and you can't find that on the billboard charts anymore. Maybe rock artists like Jimi Hendrix are simply intermediaries between the complicated music of times past and what sells the most due to its simplicity, and that now that we have made the transition, rock will go the way of disco and we will be permanently stuck with super-selling simple music (I don't want this to happen, but maybe that's just the way it is.)
No drugs were involved with this epiphany
Any thoughts?
I don't see how Pink Floyd is more complex than Kendrick Lamar. Simplicity is Pink Floyd's defining characteristic. To Pimp A Butterfly is a staggeringly dense and complex album, to the extent that I can only listen to it every now and then. Even Floyd at their weirdest still isn't particularly complex, which is probably why they're more popular than other prog bands like Yes.
Also, if you look at the most popular radio hits back in the 60s/70s, most of it is turgid shit (lots of 'boogie woogie' and 'tutti frutti'), rather than the artists that are now remembered as representing those decades. If I wanted to be a devil's advocate, I might even argue that pop music overall is more complex than it used to be:
I thought, you know what, what is it that really differentiates rock artists ( examples Pink Floyd, Rush, Jimi Hendrix) vs. pop artists (examples Madonna, Kendrick Lamar and other modern stars, maybe even Fleetwood Mac kinda) and why are rock artists struggling to compete with pop artists nowadays.
O.K. so then I had an epiphany. I thought, maybe the core difference between rock artists and pop artists is complexity vs. simplicity. Pink Floyd, Rush, and Jimi Hendrix are obviously all very complicated and heady if you listen to them, while when I looked at a 2015-2016 chart hits handbook, I found pages of major triads and hardly a flat or sharp in sight. This basically mean to me that the music is simple.
Then I thought maybe simplicity is what people want. Jazz and Classical Music are famously complex (lots of flats and sharps on the page, for example) and you can't find that on the billboard charts anymore. Maybe rock artists like Jimi Hendrix are simply intermediaries between the complicated music of times past and what sells the most due to its simplicity, and that now that we have made the transition, rock will go the way of disco and we will be permanently stuck with super-selling simple music (I don't want this to happen, but maybe that's just the way it is.)
No drugs were involved with this epiphany
Any thoughts?
The correlation is not necessarily a perfect one-for-one correspondence, but there is some causal link there, I believe.
To be perfectly fair, there's no shortage of rock that is mind-numbingly simple, but I have often though much along the lines you are thinking. Since I naturally gravitate to more complexity, I have always favored rock over pop, but especially prog like you mention. Beyond the complexity of the melody and harmony you mention, there's even more difference in the complexity of beat and rhythm.
Never had much use for most pop (there are exceptions, especially in the late 60s and the early seventies), and even less use for rap, country, and reggae for much the same reason.
I don't see how Pink Floyd is more complex than Kendrick Lamar. Simplicity is Pink Floyd's defining characteristic. To Pimp A Butterfly is a staggeringly dense and complex album, to the extent that I can only listen to it every now and then. Even Floyd at their weirdest still isn't particularly complex, which is probably why they're more popular than other prog bands like Yes.
This is 100% accurate. _________________ Attention all planets of the solar federation: We have assumed control.
I don't see how Pink Floyd is more complex than Kendrick Lamar. Simplicity is Pink Floyd's defining characteristic. To Pimp A Butterfly is a staggeringly dense and complex album, to the extent that I can only listen to it every now and then. Even Floyd at their weirdest still isn't particularly complex, which is probably why they're more popular than other prog bands like Yes.
Also, if you look at the most popular radio hits back in the 60s/70s, most of it is turgid shit (lots of 'boogie woogie' and 'tutti frutti'), rather than the artists that are now remembered as representing those decades. If I wanted to be a devil's advocate, I might even argue that pop music overall is more complex than it used to be:
I was looking for a complexity vs simplicity conversation in another vein... what makes simplistic music (Pink Floyd's bass lines are some of the most simple, yet still somehow incredibly good) or complex music (Rite of Spring) enjoyable by so many, and then sometimes the reason why music is hated is because it is too simple or too complex to be "enjoyed".
I don't see how Pink Floyd is more complex than Kendrick Lamar. Simplicity is Pink Floyd's defining characteristic. To Pimp A Butterfly is a staggeringly dense and complex album, to the extent that I can only listen to it every now and then. Even Floyd at their weirdest still isn't particularly complex, which is probably why they're more popular than other prog bands like Yes.
Also, if you look at the most popular radio hits back in the 60s/70s, most of it is turgid shit (lots of 'boogie woogie' and 'tutti frutti'), rather than the artists that are now remembered as representing those decades. If I wanted to be a devil's advocate, I might even argue that pop music overall is more complex than it used to be:
Can't agree. Lamar is like any other in the genre--repetitive, pre-canned, programmed, not played, rhythms. Very little variation in either melody or harmony. You can layer up things all day, but at the end of the day, music is comprised of melody, harmony, and rhythm, and all of these are, by its very definition, limited in rap music.
I don't see how Pink Floyd is more complex than Kendrick Lamar. Simplicity is Pink Floyd's defining characteristic. To Pimp A Butterfly is a staggeringly dense and complex album, to the extent that I can only listen to it every now and then. Even Floyd at their weirdest still isn't particularly complex, which is probably why they're more popular than other prog bands like Yes.
Also, if you look at the most popular radio hits back in the 60s/70s, most of it is turgid shit (lots of 'boogie woogie' and 'tutti frutti'), rather than the artists that are now remembered as representing those decades. If I wanted to be a devil's advocate, I might even argue that pop music overall is more complex than it used to be:
Can't agree. Lamar is like any other in the genre--repetitive, pre-canned, programmed, not played, rhythms. Very little variation in either melody or harmony. You can layer up things all day, but at the end of the day, music is comprised of melody, harmony, and rhythm, and all of these are, by its very definition, limited in rap music.
I feel like you haven't even listened to Kendrick (and I'm only saying this because 10 years ago I would have said something similar probably).
I don't see how Pink Floyd is more complex than Kendrick Lamar. Simplicity is Pink Floyd's defining characteristic. To Pimp A Butterfly is a staggeringly dense and complex album, to the extent that I can only listen to it every now and then. Even Floyd at their weirdest still isn't particularly complex, which is probably why they're more popular than other prog bands like Yes.
Also, if you look at the most popular radio hits back in the 60s/70s, most of it is turgid shit (lots of 'boogie woogie' and 'tutti frutti'), rather than the artists that are now remembered as representing those decades. If I wanted to be a devil's advocate, I might even argue that pop music overall is more complex than it used to be:
Can't agree. Lamar is like any other in the genre--repetitive, pre-canned, programmed, not played, rhythms. Very little variation in either melody or harmony. You can layer up things all day, but at the end of the day, music is comprised of melody, harmony, and rhythm, and all of these are, by its very definition, limited in rap music.
I feel like you haven't even listened to Kendrick (and I'm only saying this because 10 years ago I would have said something similar probably).
Didn't say he couldn't--just that he doesn't most of the time. But even in the clip provided, it's mostly monotone talking. Throwing in a jazzy sax run once in a while doesn't qualify as giving complexity to melody. Sustaining melody through a four minute song is a whole different level of melodic achievement. Similar evaluation with regard to rhythm and harmony.
I've heard some rap I like, but that doesn't mean I mistake it for a high degree of complexity.
the difference between tone and rhythm is just speed tho. speed up any rhythm loop enough and you eventually get a tone. based on that, I would say there is a lot of room for musical complexity in rapping via the cadence.
the difference between tone and rhythm is just speed tho. speed up any rhythm loop enough and you eventually get a tone. based on that, I would say there is a lot of room for musical complexity in rapping via the cadence.
It doesn't quite work like that. If someone's speaking tone is 200 Hz, it's 200hz, whether hes speaking at 100 words per minute or 300 words per minute. The tone remains the tone.
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