Drugs - Politics & Religion - Forums : Best Ever Albums

RFNAPLES
Level 8

Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA

According to the coroner, Houston had cocaine in her system when she died. Marijuana, Xanax, Flexeril and Benadryl were also found in her system.
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HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

Ok forget her then, still half the list didn't die from illegal drugs.

Just looked up Janis Joplin's death: "Cooke believes that Joplin had accidentally been given heroin which was much more potent than normal, as several of her dealer's other customers also overdosed that week."

Surely that's a pretty compelling argument for legalisation and regulation? Things like that just wouldn't happen.
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RFNAPLES
Level 8

Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA

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BlueNote

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

Ok forget her then, still half the list didn't die from illegal drugs.

Just looked up Janis Joplin's death: "Cooke believes that Joplin had accidentally been given heroin which was much more potent than normal, as several of her dealer's other customers also overdosed that week."

Surely that's a pretty compelling argument for legalisation and regulation? Things like that just wouldn't happen.

One third of all drug overdoses (including cocaine, heroin, alcohol, etc.) in the USA are prescription drug overdoses. Prescription drugs are both legal and regulated, so I don't think your argument works.

Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums

Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible

RFNAPLES wrote:

Better to burn out than to fade away, I always say.

Not to mention, many of those musicians who DIED on drugs wouldn't have been half the musicians had they NOT taken drugs.
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junodog4
Future Grumpy Old Man

Gender: Male
Location: Calgary

Jackwc wrote:

Better to burn out than to fade away, I always say.

Not to mention, many of those musicians who DIED on drugs wouldn't have been half the musicians had they NOT taken drugs.

I think the effects of drugs upon the genius of our beloved artists is overrated. We romanticize artists and drugs. The best artists may have taken drugs, drugs may have opened them up on a few tracks, but in general, I think their genius made them geniuses, and they still would have been great without the drugs. Perhaps talented artists are drawn to drugs, but I don't think the drugs are needed to enhance the talent. I'm sure there are some exceptions... Further, I can think of a few artists who really started to suck once they went further down the drug spiral.

HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

BlueNote wrote:

One third of all drug overdoses (including cocaine, heroin, alcohol, etc.) in the USA are prescription drug overdoses. Prescription drugs are both legal and regulated, so I don't think your argument works.

No my point stands, in this instance she probably wouldn't have died had she known exactly what she was taking, which she would have if the market were properly regulated.

Your point about prescription drugs is interesting, and I suppose the argument hinges on whether more or less people would take drugs were they legalised and regulated. I don't think there's any reason why they would, I mean the legality of drugs doesn't affect their availability at all and there's quite a social stigma about drugs (not to mention health reasons) which means I can hardly see people who have never taken drugs before suddenly rushing off to the pharmacy the day they're legalised.

It's almost a certainty that legalisation and regulation would result in fewer drug deaths.
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BlueNote

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

No my point stands

Not really. You wrote earlier, "Surely that's a pretty compelling argument for legalisation and regulation? Things like that just wouldn't happen." The fact that a third of overdoses occur using legal and regulated drugs shows that those things do happen. Of course you claim that Janis might not of died, but that is a guess.

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

the legality of drugs doesn't affect their availability at all

Of course it does. Cigarettes and beer are easier to obtain than pot. I can drive into any town and without having to know anyone, knowing where to go, or having look over my shoulder, and fill up on nicotine and booze.

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

I can hardly see people who have never taken drugs before suddenly rushing off to the pharmacy the day they're legalised.

I can see it happening. Think about this: Cocaine is now legal and you are having a party at your house. Wouldn't the thoughtful host have a bit of pot and cocaine around to serve the guests even if he doesn't partake himself?

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

It's almost a certainty that legalisation and regulation would result in fewer drug deaths.

I don't think that is a certainty, as is evidenced by the problems with prescription drugs.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

junodog4 wrote:

I think the effects of drugs upon the genius of our beloved artists is overrated. We romanticize artists and drugs. The best artists may have taken drugs, drugs may have opened them up on a few tracks, but in general, I think their genius made them geniuses, and they still would have been great without the drugs. Perhaps talented artists are drawn to drugs, but I don't think the drugs are needed to enhance the talent. I'm sure there are some exceptions... Further, I can think of a few artists who really started to suck once they went further down the drug spiral.

I will have to agree with this.

I somewhat recently watched The Anthology series on the Beatles, and Ringo stated that anytime drugs influenced them in the studio, they went back to listen to it when they were sober and said, "What crap." They would have to redo it, or rewrite it completely.

I have heard this from other musicians that when drugs are involved, they make no progress. Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, RHCP have similar stories.

HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

BlueNote wrote:

Not really. You wrote earlier, "Surely that's a pretty compelling argument for legalisation and regulation? Things like that just wouldn't happen." The fact that a third of overdoses occur using legal and regulated drugs shows that those things do happen. Of course you claim that Janis might not of died, but that is a guess.

I referred to a specific case in which had drugs been regulated and hence of constant strenght, Janis Joplin probably wouldn't have died, speculation yes but more than just a guess.

BlueNote wrote:

Of course it does. Cigarettes and beer are easier to obtain than pot. I can drive into any town and without having to know anyone, knowing where to go, or having look over my shoulder, and fill up on nicotine and booze.

Fair point but I never suggested selling cocaine at corner shops or supermarkets. My point is that if people want to take drugs they take drugs, they really are not hard to find. I could find you drugs in any city.

BlueNote wrote:

I can see it happening. Think about this: Cocaine is now legal and you are having a party at your house. Wouldn't the thoughtful host have a bit of pot and cocaine around to serve the guests even if he doesn't partake himself?

Cocaine at drinks parties? Plus who's ever shared Coke?

BlueNote wrote:

I don't think that is a certainty, as is evidenced by the problems with prescription drugs.

Ok so 'certainly' is a bold claim but I'm pretty convinced. Unless you're under the belief that legalisation would result in significantly hugher drug use, which I don't at all, then you could argue that it would make the situation worse. But for those who already take drugs legalisation would undoubtedly make it safer and hence fewer deaths.

Like I say it revolves around what happens to demand after legalisation, I can see no good reason why it would suddenly increase.
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