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HigherThanTheSun
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK
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- #31
- Posted: 08/09/2012 23:01
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Eh I dunno, maybe I haven't seen enough Dawkins to judge but he seems to be respectful enough of religious folk until they challenge him. His debate with the Archbishop Of Canterbury not so long ago was a very polite affair.
Personally I have no problem with religious people, I've got friends and family who are religious. It's only when people use religion to justify their moral standpoint they deserve to get owned, if you have an opinion you have to be able to justify it with a better reason than religion.
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Shut up mate you're boring!
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Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums
Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible
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- #32
- Posted: 08/09/2012 23:21
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| HigherThanTheSun wrote: | | Eh I dunno, maybe I haven't seen enough Dawkins to judge but he seems to be respectful enough of religious folk until they challenge him. |
Nah, trust me, Dawkins is a pretty big asshole. He's incredibly condescending towards the religious and is constantly attempting to push his beliefs on others. He gives atheists and agnostics a bad name, especially considering he fancies himself as our version of the Pope.
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A dick that's bigger than the sun.
Music sucks. Check out my favourite movies, fam:
http://letterboxd.com/jackiegigantic/
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Wombi
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- #33
- Posted: 08/12/2012 06:28
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| Jackwc wrote: | | Nah, trust me, Dawkins is a pretty big asshole. He's incredibly condescending towards the religious and is constantly attempting to push his beliefs on others. He gives atheists and agnostics a bad name, especially considering he fancies himself as our version of the Pope. |
It's times like this I wanna marry your ass. All this ^ is absolutely true. I can't stand that cretin.
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alelsupreme
Awful.
Gender: Male
Age: 27
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- #34
- Posted: 08/12/2012 13:40
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It's like he'll be making a totally agreeable point, then he'll ruin it by saying that every member of the catholic church is a cunt or something.
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ZebraRock
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- #35
- Posted: 08/12/2012 21:12
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| Jackwc wrote: | Oh, faith school wasn't so bad for you? A religious, right-wing, heterosexual?
YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY. |
I'm afraid there really isn't any point to this kind of thing. I could say, for example, "oh, public school wasn't bad for you? An atheist, left-wing, homosexual?"
But why should I? You go to public schools like I did, and enjoy your life. I have no issue with that. i don't want all public schools to be religious at all.
All I was trying to say was that public schools are often extremely indoctrinating and I found little or no indoctrination at a religious school.
But friends of mine who are jewish, muslim, atheist, agnostic, or Hindu, democratic or a-political, gay, or bi would all agree they don't feel discriminated against.
Please, in the future, before you start throwing around expletives and trying to start fights, consider what I'm saying and aske yourself whether I'm actually saying something wrong/evil/offensive/whatever. Thanks very much.
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Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums
Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible
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- #36
- Posted: 08/12/2012 21:25
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| ZebraRock wrote: | I'm afraid there really isn't any point to this kind of thing. I could say, for example, "oh, public school wasn't bad for you? An atheist, left-wing, homosexual?"
All I was trying to say was that public schools are often extremely indoctrinating and I found little or no indoctrination at a religious school.
But friends of mine who are jewish, muslim, atheist, agnostic, or Hindu, democratic or a-political, gay, or bi would all agree they don't feel discriminated against. |
I didn't go to a public school. I went to a faith school. And you know what? I felt a little discriminated against by the institution. Read my previous posts in this thread for just why exactly.
Oh, and for future reference? Don't speak on behalf of others. Comments along the lines of "oh, non-religious/other-faith, liberal and LGBT who went to my school would totally agree with me" are pretty fucking offensive, especially when you don't really have anything to back it up.
See, most of my Catholic heterosexual friends in faith school had pretty much no idea that any discrimination was going on, mainly because it wasn't happening to them. Just because you didn't see your jewish, muslim, atheist, agnostic, or Hindu, democratic or a-political, gay, or bi friends (although I'm sorry to say I highly doubt this incredibly diverse club group of friends you had at faith school really existed and has probably been at least a little hyperbolized) being discriminated against doesn't mean it didn't happen or they didn't feel it.
_________________
A dick that's bigger than the sun.
Music sucks. Check out my favourite movies, fam:
http://letterboxd.com/jackiegigantic/
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ZebraRock
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- #37
- Posted: 08/12/2012 21:41
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| Jackwc wrote: | I didn't go to a public school. I went to a faith school. And you know what? I felt a little discriminated against by the institution. Read my previous posts in this thread for just why exactly.
Oh, and for future reference? Don't speak on behalf of others. Comments along the lines of "oh, non-religious/other-faith, liberal and LGBT who went to my school would totally agree with me" are pretty fucking offensive, especially when you don't really have anything to back it up.
See, most of my Catholic heterosexual friends in faith school had pretty much no idea that any discrimination was going on, mainly because it wasn't happening to them. Just because you didn't see your jewish, muslim, atheist, agnostic, or Hindu, democratic or a-political, gay, or bi friends (although I'm sorry to say I highly doubt this incredibly diverse club group of friends you had at faith school really existed and has probably been at least a little hyperbolized) being discriminated against doesn't mean it didn't happen or they didn't feel it. |
I'm very sorry that you didn't enjoy your experience. But yet again, you're attacking me for side issues without actually getting the point. If I have to repeat it again I'll probabbly go insane, so just refer to my previous posts, only this time with a mindset to listen instead of to critisize. As for the not speaking on behalf of others, I can recall perfectly a conversation we had ABOUT THIS VERY TOPIC. I don't know how much more you want from me, when I say as a chritian I found it remarkably un-indoctrinating you attack me, when I say PEOPLE WHO ARE OF OTHER RELIGIOUS HAVE LITERALLY SAID THEY DON'T FEEL AT ALL OPPRESSED you still attack me. "I'm pretty fucking offensive" for reporting something that people said. okay.
Furthermore, although I can't speak for others, you are perfectly entitlted to say that my friends didn't exist. Go ahead. I don't really give a fuck whether or not you'd like to believe that I had friends of varrying politics/religions/sexualities. They did, there's just really no debating that point.
And the problem isn't whether or not I'm "seeing" the discrimination, it's whether or not these people say "No, this isn't a bad school, I'm really glad we don't HAVE to go to chapel". Okay? Is that enough for you? Can you please get off your high horse and stop saying "oh, you didn't REALLY have these friends, they didn't REALLY say those things that they said, that's so offensive of you." Alright? Or at the very least can we agree to both just stop arguing with each other? You are far more interested in waging personal attacks than debating the merits of faith schools, so unless you have something really pressing to say, let's just stop.
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Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums
Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible
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- #38
- Posted: 08/12/2012 22:07
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Look, I'm not trying to say your friends didn't exist, I went to a Catholic school - we didn't have ANY Jewish, Muslim or Hindu students. Typically people of those faiths don't go to schools that teach contrary faiths. I'm sorry, it's just a little brow-raising. Maybe I'd believe it if you'd said, I dunno, maybe ONE Jewish friend, but trying to have me buy that you had all such faiths in your one monofaith school just seems a little ridiculous.
Now, I enjoyed high school quite a bit, but there were certain... issues with it as well. Especially considering the very school I was going to was teaching us that homosexuality is a sin punishable by eternal damnation. It's hard to see how a school that teaches such values wouldn't be discriminatory. Not to mention that, at most faith schools (specifically the one I went to, the ones my friends within the board went to and the one my mother taught at), mass wasn't an option. You had to show up, or could face serious consequences.
They also purposefully attempted to misinform students on subjects ranging from evolution, contraception, sex, history, etc., typically in the interests of the Catholic Church.
I will agree, however, that public school typically work towards liberal indoctrination - teachers typically vote left-wing, Democrats put a lot of money into schools and thus their salaries.
And I'm sorry for being so blunt earlier, I'm coming down from a sleep-deprived MDMA hangover.
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A dick that's bigger than the sun.
Music sucks. Check out my favourite movies, fam:
http://letterboxd.com/jackiegigantic/
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ZebraRock
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- #39
- Posted: 08/12/2012 22:38
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Okay, fair enough. I think I see one important point here. You went to a catholic based school, whereas I went to an episcopal school. The Episcopalians are noticeably more liberal and "all-inclusive". So perhaps that's part of the difference. The school I went to made a big deal out of gettting people from all faiths/backgrounds in an effort to appear more diverse and balance. I promise.
The school i went to didn't do a huge lot in the way of sex ed, but I distinctly remember them saying that heterosexuality is not by any means the only way, and homosexuality is not a sin. Once again, I promise you that chapel was an option.
I don't know how much I was misinformed on evolution, as I only ever really took chemistry and physics in the science dept. However, from people I know who took biology, they said the teachers generally taught evolution, with a few of them mentioning that they personally believed that God was responsible for evolution.
Anyways, I suppose if I had to re-phrase my original post, it would be something along the lines of "I wouldn't cast a blanket damnation of Faith schools, because personally I had several experiences that would point otherwise."
The flip side of that coin, though, is exactly what you said. There are loads of issues with faith schools, especially the more hard-core ones that do the things you mentioned. I agree totally that many are quite biased.
How's this for a proposition: No faith schools until, say, late middle/early high school, at which point the child is then allowed to decide for themselves. That way someone like me could have gone to one (which i loved) and you could have gone somewhere where they didn't teach things that discriminated against you?
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RFNAPLES
Level 8
Gender: Male
Age: 75
Location: Durham, NC, USA
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