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| Poll: What are you? |
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| Christian |
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24% |
[37] |
| Muslim |
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1% |
[2] |
| Buddhist |
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1% |
[2] |
| Atheist |
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49% |
[74] |
| Deist |
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0% |
[0] |
| Jew |
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1% |
[2] |
| Hindu |
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0% |
[0] |
| Jainist |
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0% |
[1] |
| Zoroastrian |
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1% |
[2] |
| Scientologist |
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0% |
[1] |
| Shintoist |
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0% |
[0] |
| Taoist |
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0% |
[0] |
| Confucian |
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1% |
[2] |
| Wiccan |
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0% |
[0] |
| Other (please specify) |
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10% |
[15] |
| Don't care (aka apatheist) |
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7% |
[11] |
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| Total Votes : 149 |
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| Author |
Message |
HigherThanTheSun
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK
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- #21
- Posted: 06/02/2013 11:10
- Post subject:
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| Norman Bates wrote: | | First, I'm an atheist too. There is no God. That said, I disagree with the highlighted part. I sincerely believe that believing there is a God makes your life easier, allowing to hide behind all sorts of unexplainable determinisms/supreme being's unscrutable will which must help a lot when life is extremely hard on you. Of course, churches have perfectly understood this and bank on that. But I perfectly understand how you would bet on God rather than bet on the contrary. A lot of things to be gained in believing. |
| Norman Bates wrote: | | No, you're right. It probably doesn't improve life for mankind as a whole, from an atheist's viewpoint. Mind you, it throws millions of people into apathetic acceptance of their 'fate', which, in a way, upholds the whole socio-economic system our modern societies are based on. So, in a way, it makes everybody's lives easier. I can see I'm not very clear, I'll elaborate later if I can, it's a bit difficult to stay focused right now. |
I agree that on a personal level religion can make someone's life better but I definitely agree with Bork in that mankind is better off without religion than with it. I'm right now pondering all the world's problems which might be solved were everyone to abandon religion tomorrow and I think it's a very different and much better version of the world we're currently living in.
Of course this is partly just according to my personal (non religious) beliefs about what I feel is morally right and wrong, and there are people who would argue that this non religious version of the world would be much worse. Then again, these people will tend to be religious themselves and will have had their idea of what is right and wrong dictated to them by religion, and if they've never had the capacity to evaluate for themselves what is right and wrong, I tend to value their opinion less. Anybody who is capable of deciding right and wrong for themselves without being led by others would, I think, reasonably decide that the world would be a better place without organised religion.
And in a world without organised religion it doesn't mean that people can't still believe what they want when it comes to god or heaven or anything. My grandma can still believe that there is heaven because it's a great comfort to her. She can also still believe that there is a higher power who knows right and wrong, but crucially that idea of right and wrong would be what she has decided for herself is right and wrong rather than what has been dictated to her by organised religion. So now instead of having millions of people the world over with uniform views on what is right and wrong, they start to think for themselves and form reasoned answers to these questions (and probably quite different answers to what religion might say). People thinking for themselves and not relying on others to do it for them I believe must be a good thing.
To summarise, organised religion is bad, IMO.
_________________
Shut up mate you're boring!
Last edited by HigherThanTheSun on 06/02/2013 11:15; edited 1 time in total
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Cymro2011
The Beatles were objectively average
Gender: Male
Age: 28
Location: In a deep, dark bubblegum graveyard
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- #23
- Posted: 06/02/2013 12:22
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| HigherThanTheSun wrote: | | To summarise, organised religion is bad, IMO. |
Mainly this. Although I think religions need to be organised to remain strong or they will wane quickly. Clever religious people who enjoy the benefits of it know this very well and will strongly oppose and fear such a prospect and therefore will invest with all their might to save religion as an organised unit.
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Guest
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- #24
- Posted: 06/02/2013 12:28
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I'm a Marxist. Looking at some of the idiots I've come across over the years (on my side), it quite often begins to feel like a religion. Anyway, I'm agnostic. I like the idea of a higher power, in a kind of I-like-shitty-'90s-Nickelodeon-shows way, but I don't will there to be one. Nor do I think there is one. It actually can't be proved in one way or another. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't one, but there may be and for that reason I find it difficult to identify as an atheist. Well, that and Richard Dawkins. Mainly Richard Dawkins.
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Patman360
Serenity Now
Gender: Male
Age: 31
Location: Cork, Ireland
Moderator
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- #25
- Posted: 06/02/2013 16:44
- Post subject:
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I've been raised Catholic as is the case with a lot of people in rural Ireland (Until recently the Catholic Church had way too much power in this country, thankfully not anymore), I'd still go to church occasionally, mainly to keep my parents happy to be honest while I'm still living at home, so I guess I'm a really bad Catholic (Christian). For now anyway.
_________________
2023
2022
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Guest
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- #26
- Posted: 06/02/2013 20:55
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| lethalnezzle wrote: | | I'm a Marxist. Looking at some of the idiots I've come across over the years (on my side), it quite often begins to feel like a religion. Anyway, I'm agnostic. I like the idea of a higher power, in a kind of I-like-shitty-'90s-Nickelodeon-shows way, but I don't will there to be one. Nor do I think there is one. It actually can't be proved in one way or another. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't one, but there may be and for that reason I find it difficult to identify as an atheist. Well, that and Richard Dawkins. Mainly Richard Dawkins. |
Yeah, fuck Dawkins. Anyway, I pretty well agree this, but I think the terms "atheist" and "agnostic" get very misunderstood (not saying you in particular have misunderstood them, just people in general). A lot of people think of the word "agnostic" as sort of the middle ground between theism and atheism; the I-don't-know-for-sure point in between, if you will, when in fact it has nothing to do with the existence or non-existence of God. For example, I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't claim to know with 100% certainty that there is no God, and I don't believe there is any way to know with 100% certainty that there is no God (same as there is no way to know with 100% certainty that there isn't a giant invisible unicorn farting in the corner of my kitchen), but I believe there is no God, so I identify as an atheist. One can also identify as an agnostic theist, though the vast majority of religions condemn anyone who is hesitant to accept their faith, so this is much less common.
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Guest
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- #27
- Posted: 06/02/2013 22:22
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I pretty much don't care about whether God exists or not, but I think religion can be really beautiful. It kind of irks me when people scoff at the religious and are like, "Gullible brainwashed fools!" I don't understand how people can live with such cynicism. Then again, the bigoted religious who want everyone to be like them are just as annoying. It goes both ways.
Sure, maybe we've outgrown religion as a society, but on a personal level it gives people something to put their faith in, and something to help them through life. Sometimes people aren't strong enough to withstand all the difficulties of life all on their own.
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Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh
Gender: Male
Location: Washington
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- #28
- Posted: 06/02/2013 22:50
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I was raised in a very strict Pentecostal Christian home. Yes, that's the annoying evangelical type. I grew up in a home where the only music we listened to was Christian music and to listen to anything else was considered carnal and "of this world" which apparently is inherently sinful. My current religion is no religion. It was a big personal deal in my life when I admitted to myself that I was an atheist. Looking back, religion and a general belief in an entity that paves your life and is active in this world just seems absurd to me, not to mention that it is completely unsubstantiated.
That said, I've seen religion have beautiful effects on people's lives on a personal basis. There are a lot of weak-minded people in this world that need the belief in some more powerful being in order to get through some very difficult situations. I have no issue with people having a religion of there own. My problem is when religion gets organized and they start spreading it to the point where they are forcing it on other people.
The worst part is the way they spread their religion. At this point I'm clearly talking about Christianity, seeing as how not all religions are this way. Anyway, it's disgusting how they play on your fears and on the uncertainties in life to trick you to join their ranks and as is often the case, to take your money. The whole notion of going to a world of eternal damnation just because I don't believe the bullshit they are feeding me just pisses me off more than anything. People can be twisted characters, and in horribly extreme cases, hell might be an appropriate punishment (MAYBE!). But really think about it. Eternal damnation. Torture, fire, and all things horrible... forever. That's repulsive. And who do they claim deserves it? Not the murderers and rapists. They can still go to heaven if they agree to believe and worship their god. The people that go to hell are the people that just don't believe, regardless of how good a person they might be.
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Guest
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- #29
- Posted: 06/02/2013 23:01
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| Jasonconfused wrote: | | That said, I've seen religion have beautiful effects on people's lives on a personal basis. There are a lot of weak-minded people in this world that need the belief in some more powerful being in order to get through some very difficult situations. I have no issue with people having a religion of there own. My problem is when religion gets organized and they start spreading it to the point where they are forcing it on other people. |
That's what I was trying to say, but said better.
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Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh
Gender: Male
Location: Washington
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- #30
- Posted: 06/02/2013 23:07
- Post subject:
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| BrandonMeow wrote: | | That's what I was trying to say, but said better. |
Oh sorry I really didn't even read the rest of the thread before posting. You said it quite well yourself. Just a slightly different angle.
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