Political/Religious Random Chat - Politics & Religion

Skinny
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Fuck Putin. Cunt.
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Patman360
Serenity Now

Gender: Male
Age: 31
Location: Cork, Ireland

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Skinny wrote:

Fuck Putin. Cunt.

Seconding this.
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Hayden

All my respect to Zelenskyy.

The courage and leadership he's shown the last few days is astounding.
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Repo
BeA Sunflower

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Hayden wrote:

All my respect to Zelenskyy.

The courage and leadership he's shown the last few days is astounding.

Totally!!! Was in Ukrainian Village (a neighborhood in chicago) today with my kids! And... Fuck Putin! What a self absorbed asshole! He's hurting his own people too!

BARDAMU

Hayden wrote:

All my respect to Zelenskyy.

I sure do wish his military would disavow and stop deputizing Neo-Nazi militias though, boy howdy.

EyeKanFly
Head Bear Master/Galactic Emperor

Age: 33
Location: Gotham

BARDAMU wrote:

I sure do wish his military would disavow and stop deputizing Neo-Nazi militias though, boy howdy.

You might want to check yourself before you go repeating Russian propoganda:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/puti...-rcna17537
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crisi...a-ukraine/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ukrai...uckerberg/
Also speaks volumes that you didn't bring up or denounce the neo-nazis in Ottawa in that other thread but you're criticizing a Jewish world leader over a debunked claim that he harbors nazi ties.

Also interesting to note that other than Israel, Ukraine is the only country ever to have had a Jewish president and prime minister concurrently. Zelenskyy is one of 4 Jewish incumbent presidents (along with Cortizo of Panama, Levits of Latvia, and Herzog of Israel). Former Ukrainian prime minster Volodymyr Groysman is Jewish, and served alongside Zelenskyy in 2019 at the begining of Zelenskyy's term. Russia and Israel are the only 2 countries with incumbent Jewish prime ministers.

This is not to say that being Jewish absolves you of harboring dangerous far-right views or discriminating against others. This is also not to say that there are not neo-nazis in Ukraine. Ukraine has a variety of fringe far-right nazi-leaning political parties which banded together for the 2019 election and won a single seat in parliament and 1.5% of the total presidential vote[*1]. But Zelinskyy is clearly not far-right/ultra-nationalist, and the neo-nazism in Ukraine is not prominent enough to justify an invasion. It's also worth noting that Russia has a neo-nazi movement and political parties as well, and Putin even has a history of working with neo-nazis when Russia began invading eastern Ukraine in 2014 [*2]

Hopefully this helps to illustrate the audacity of Putin's propaganda.

Zelenskyy himself has publicly denounced nazis both before and during the current Russian invasion.

[*1]https://reportingradicalism.org/en/them...y-election
[*2]https://khpg.org/en/1394442656
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Last edited by EyeKanFly on 03/01/2022 14:01; edited 1 time in total

EyeKanFly
Head Bear Master/Galactic Emperor

Age: 33
Location: Gotham

Also, for those looking for information on how to learn and help (via donation or other means), this is one of the best resources I've seen:
https://ukrainewar.carrd.co/

Refugees in Europe and around the world are unfortunately nothing new, and in my opinion one of the best things we can do is call upon our governments to respect the lives of our fellow humans by admitting, settling, and aiding refugees of war and other humanitarian crises. If you're interested in helping Ukrainian refugees or refugees from anywhere else in the world, the UN Refugee Agency is a good place to start: https://www.unhcr.org/en-us/get-involved.html (this is the USA version of the site but you can change the language and region in the top right).
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Last edited by EyeKanFly on 03/01/2022 14:25; edited 1 time in total

Skinny
birdman_handrub.gif

The “I’m more left than you” arguments and whataboutery are not particularly helpful right now.
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EyeKanFly
Head Bear Master/Galactic Emperor

Age: 33
Location: Gotham

Skinny wrote:

The “I’m more left than you” arguments and whataboutery are not particularly helpful right now.

Yeah I'm not engaging in that. What's really not helpful is misinformation. But you're right, I've removed my personal anecdote.
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BARDAMU

EyeKanFly wrote:

You might want to check yourself before you go repeating Russian propoganda:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/puti...-rcna17537
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crisi...a-ukraine/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ukrai...uckerberg/
Also speaks volumes that you didn't bring up or denounce the neo-nazis in Ottawa in that other thread but you're criticizing a Jewish world leader over a debunked claim that he harbors nazi ties.

Also interesting to note that other than Israel, Ukraine is the only country ever to have had a Jewish president and prime minister concurrently. Zelenskyy is one of 4 Jewish incumbent presidents (along with Cortizo of Panama, Levits of Latvia, and Herzog of Israel). Former Ukrainian prime minster Volodymyr Groysman is Jewish, and served alongside Zelenskyy in 2019 at the begining of Zelenskyy's term. Russia and Israel are the only 2 countries with incumbent Jewish prime ministers.

This is not to say that being Jewish absolves you of harboring dangerous far-right views or discriminating against others. This is also not to say that there are not neo-nazis in Ukraine. Ukraine has a variety of fringe far-right nazi-leaning political parties which banded together for the 2019 election and won a single seat in parliament and 1.5% of the total presidential vote[*1]. But Zelinskyy is clearly not far-right/ultra-nationalist, and the neo-nazism in Ukraine is not prominent enough to justify an invasion. It's also worth noting that Russia has a neo-nazi movement and political parties as well, and Putin even has a history of working with neo-nazis when Russia began invading eastern Ukraine in 2014 [*2]

Hopefully this helps to illustrate the audacity of Putin's propaganda.

Zelenskyy himself has publicly denounced nazis both before and during the current Russian invasion.

[*1]https://reportingradicalism.org/en/them...y-election
[*2]https://khpg.org/en/1394442656

You're putting a LOT of words in my mouth right now.

I never justified the invasion of Ukraine, nor did I claim that it's being done to "de-Nazify" the country — that's obviously all a lie. You can also see from simple poll data that Ukraine is much less antisemitic than its neighbours. I'm aware that Russia has a very prominent Nazi movement, and I never said Zelinskyy was far-right (although I certainly still don't LIKE Zelinskyy, miss me with that shit). I certainly never mentioned crisis actors.

...all that being said, groups like the Azov Battalion and Right Sector in Ukraine are NOT a hoax, they are in fact very real, and they are mentioned in your NBC article. The Ukrainian military under Zelinskyy utilizes these Nazis. Zelinskyy may not be a Nazi, but the fact that I haven't seen him even DENOUNCE these militias still marks him as someone I wouldn't reserve praise for. It's pure Giolitti shit.

While we're on the subject of Zelinksyy, however — I also don't like him because he is, like most Ukranian (and Russian, and most ex-Soviet) politicians, an oligarch's stooge. It should also be noted that said oligarch produced a popular Ukranian TV show where Zelinskyy played the president. Make of that what you will.

Apparently I'm guilty by omission because I didn't talk before about the trucker convoy. My half-sister, who is far more visibly Indigenous than I am and runs an Indigenous-themed café lives in Ottawa, and frankly I'm worried sick about her. The convoy definitely includes quite a few bad hombres. I frankly think Ottawa has intentionally dropped the ball on the situation because Trudeau wanted to invoke War Measures Act 2: Electric Boogaloo to set some upsetting precedents and be more like his daddy.

EyeKanFly wrote:

Yeah I'm not engaging in that. What's really not helpful is misinformation. But you're right, I've removed my personal anecdote.

I probably have leftier credentials than you anyway 💅💅💅 Actually, haha, I know I am, because the "best resources I've seen" for helping people in Ukraine haven't included a link for sending more arms to a fucking war zone. I find that rather offensive, and I don't see how that gets us any closer to getting out of this mess. I don't want more Ukranians to die, but I also don't want any more Russians — a lot of whom have been tricked and are probably scared kids who just want to go home — to die either.

I don't want more war, I want de-escalation. This war is going to come down to the negotiating table, and I feel that the sooner that table is set the sooner people stop dying.