Controversial Music Opinions On BEA! - Music

Hayden

rkm wrote:

they’re just content doing Facebook etc.

ugh.

Facebook.
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Jimmy Dread
Old skool like Happy Shopper

Location: 555 Dub Street

Moderator

rkm wrote:

- The value of an album is directly proportional to the emotional energy you invest in it
- Consuming vast quantities of music dilutes your ability to truly care about any of it
- Calling an album “dated” is a meaningless criticism
- CD’s sound better than streaming
- Vinyl is fun, but old vinyl, though fetishised, often sounds rubbish

Couldn’t agree more with the first 4, although I’d add a caveat with the second by saying ‘in a short period of time’ because it’s perfectly feasible for us old gits to have built up an intimate knowledge of hundreds of records simply down to the length of time we’ve been on the planet.

The 5th one though is nonsense, unless you’re in the habit of buying knackered old Beatles LPs that have been played to death on cheap record players with a sapphire stylus and a non-adjustable tracking force. Having done side-by-side comparisons I’d take an EX original over a modern reissue of 9 times out of 10. As with most things to do with the playback of sound, it’s the quality of the equipment you use that makes the difference, and with records that’s especially true.
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rkm

Jimmy, must just be my poor luck, then. When I buy old vinyl, I check it for scratches, look for a general glossy-ness on the surface which hopefully indicates it hasn’t been played to death, and that the hole in the centre doesn’t look all burred or stretched, and the results are inconsistent.

The last record I bought that sounded amazing was Robbie Robertson’s self titled album, which had a big sticker on the front saying DMM, direct metal mastering.

I have an old pressing of Joni Mitchell’s “Hejira” and a new pressing. It’s a fave album of mine, and the new pressing kills the old one. I believe it’s a re-master.

I’ve bought new vinyl that’s been meh as well.

I just feel like it’s a total crap shoot.

Jimmy Dread
Old skool like Happy Shopper

Location: 555 Dub Street

Moderator

rkm wrote:

Jimmy, must just be my poor luck, then. When I buy old vinyl, I check it for scratches, look for a general glossy-ness on the surface which hopefully indicates it hasn’t been played to death, and that the hole in the centre doesn’t look all burred or stretched, and the results are inconsistent.

The last record I bought that sounded amazing was Robbie Robertson’s self titled album, which had a big sticker on the front saying DMM, direct metal mastering.

I have an old pressing of Joni Mitchell’s “Hejira” and a new pressing. It’s a fave album of mine, and the new pressing kills the old one. I believe it’s a re-master.

I’ve bought new vinyl that’s been meh as well.

I just feel like it’s a total crap shoot.

Buying used vinyl, from whatever decade, needn’t be. You’re always in the lap of the Gods to some extent - unless you know who you’re buying it from - as you have no idea what equipment was used to play it back. And this is where the problems arise - most decks (cheap all-in-ones, the ones that used to sit atop a hi-fi system) have no way of adjusting the tracking force, and coupled with general poor care will lead to distortion where the groove have been permanently damaged. You can tell if there’s scratches obviously, but even the most superficially spotless record could be disguising issues.

The lessons I’ve learnt - as well as the centre-hole look for spindle marks on the label (normally an indication of how often played, and therefore how likely it is the record’s going to suffer as a result - then again not always the case, but a pretty solid place to start), use a decent torch if you can (as under some light micro-abrasions or area where the black is fading towards white can’t always be seen), don’t get ripped off (check Popsike or Discogs prices, but bear condition in mind), if you can feel a scratch put it back unless it’s dirt cheap or rare as the hills, and always buy off someone with a good reputation (I’ve built mine on describing everything I sell down to the finest detail, and under-grading if something’s borderline). If you collect, a vacuum Record Cleaning Machine is an absolute must and having owned one for 6 months now I’d never play a second hand LP without giving it a deep clean first. Oh, and make sure you clean your stylus regularly. Crud in the grooves is a massive issue and a carbon fibre brush/wet clean will rarely sort it, especially if it’s been stored in humid/damp conditions for years.

For new LPs, head to Discogs and see who cut it and where it was pressed. Certain mastering engineers, labels and pressing plants will always give you quality albums, others won’t. Anything pressed at Rainbo or GZMedia is always going to be hit-and-miss, and stuff on 4 Men With Beards tends to be from digital masters/CD copies which defeats the object of having it on vinyl in the first place. The pressing weight is a marketing gimmick - just because the record’s pressed on 180g plastic it makes no real difference- the key’s in the mastering, the source and of course how you play it back. If mastered properly and looked after, an album pressed on Dynaflex (RCA’s 70s spin on reduced vinyl weight to keep costs low during the Oil Crisis) will sound excellent. 180g records will be more durable, but if you handle your records correctly and have got your turntable calibration spot-on record weight makes not an ounce of difference.

tl;dr. Point is part of the fun of collecting records is the thrill of the chase. Some background knowledge helps, but grabbing that album you adore and has been your own holy grail for next-to-nothing gives you a buzz you can’t beat. You’ll pick up some crap along the way - just upgrade it. But the notion that all second-hand vinyl is pants is plain wrong.
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Folk 'n Stuff
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DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

rkm wrote:

- The value of an album is directly proportional to the emotional energy you invest in it agree no doubt. Not only that, but it has to connect with some sort of emotions from the listener to be liked.
- Consuming vast quantities of music dilutes your ability to truly care about any of it ?
- Calling an album “dated” is a meaningless criticism also agree, cause even the 'dated' sound could be better than the current one
- CD’s sound better than streaming Definitely agree. Anyone who disagrees is too young.
- Vinyl is fun, but old vinyl, though fetishised, often sounds rubbish Disagree but I see your point. My old Beatles-vinyls from the 60s still play flawlessly.
- Convenience is the enemy of meaningful engagement what do you mean?
- The culture of music appreciation was better before the internet How could anyone disagree, that's not really controversial of an opinion in my eyes
- Internet forums are to community, as pornography is to intimacy Laughing

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DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

rkm wrote:

Hey guys, I never said the interactions here are meaningless and without value, just that they are inherently lacking, not because of the members or their intentions, but because of the nature of the mechanism.

I do feel that society at large has traded away many of the benefits of community for the sake of convenience. I have old friends who I haven’t seen in years, not because of geographical distance or lack of wanting to communicate... they’re just content doing Facebook etc.

I agree, but that doesn't really mean it's a controversial MUSIC opinion y'know.
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My Top 100 :
www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=4...amp;page=1

My music:
- www.hyperfollow.com/dommedamian
Spotify: ----------------------------------------------------↓

DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

Jimmy Dread wrote:

rkm wrote:

Jimmy, must just be my poor luck, then. When I buy old vinyl, I check it for scratches, look for a general glossy-ness on the surface which hopefully indicates it hasn’t been played to death, and that the hole in the centre doesn’t look all burred or stretched, and the results are inconsistent.

The last record I bought that sounded amazing was Robbie Robertson’s self titled album, which had a big sticker on the front saying DMM, direct metal mastering.

I have an old pressing of Joni Mitchell’s “Hejira” and a new pressing. It’s a fave album of mine, and the new pressing kills the old one. I believe it’s a re-master.

I’ve bought new vinyl that’s been meh as well.

I just feel like it’s a total crap shoot.

Buying used vinyl, from whatever decade, needn’t be. You’re always in the lap of the Gods to some extent - unless you know who you’re buying it from - as you have no idea what equipment was used to play it back. And this is where the problems arise - most decks (cheap all-in-ones, the ones that used to sit atop a hi-fi system) have no way of adjusting the tracking force, and coupled with general poor care will lead to distortion where the groove have been permanently damaged. You can tell if there’s scratches obviously, but even the most superficially spotless record could be disguising issues.

The lessons I’ve learnt - as well as the centre-hole look for spindle marks on the label (normally an indication of how often played, and therefore how likely it is the record’s going to suffer as a result - then again not always the case, but a pretty solid place to start), use a decent torch if you can (as under some light micro-abrasions or area where the black is fading towards white can’t always be seen), don’t get ripped off (check Popsike or Discogs prices, but bear condition in mind), if you can feel a scratch put it back unless it’s dirt cheap or rare as the hills, and always buy off someone with a good reputation (I’ve built mine on describing everything I sell down to the finest detail, and under-grading if something’s borderline). If you collect, a vacuum Record Cleaning Machine is an absolute must and having owned one for 6 months now I’d never play a second hand LP without giving it a deep clean first. Oh, and make sure you clean your stylus regularly. Crud in the grooves is a massive issue and a carbon fibre brush/wet clean will rarely sort it, especially if it’s been stored in humid/damp conditions for years.

For new LPs, head to Discogs and see who cut it and where it was pressed. Certain mastering engineers, labels and pressing plants will always give you quality albums, others won’t. Anything pressed at Rainbo or GZMedia is always going to be hit-and-miss, and stuff on 4 Men With Beards tends to be from digital masters/CD copies which defeats the object of having it on vinyl in the first place. The pressing weight is a marketing gimmick - just because the record’s pressed on 180g plastic it makes no real difference- the key’s in the mastering, the source and of course how you play it back. If mastered properly and looked after, an album pressed on Dynaflex (RCA’s 70s spin on reduced vinyl weight to keep costs low during the Oil Crisis) will sound excellent. 180g records will be more durable, but if you handle your records correctly and have got your turntable calibration spot-on record weight makes not an ounce of difference.

tl;dr. Point is part of the fun of collecting records is the thrill of the chase. Some background knowledge helps, but grabbing that album you adore and has been your own holy grail for next-to-nothing gives you a buzz you can’t beat. You’ll pick up some crap along the way - just upgrade it. But the notion that all second-hand vinyl is pants is plain wrong.

Discogs.com is my local online record store. Recommended to everyone.
_________________
My Top 100 :
www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=4...amp;page=1

My music:
- www.hyperfollow.com/dommedamian
Spotify: ----------------------------------------------------↓

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Gender: Female
Age: 38

rkm wrote:

- Consuming vast quantities of music dilutes your ability to truly care about any of it

How much is vast? Because I listen to a lot of music, and I think it actually benefits my ability to care, like it's more significant for me to be spending a bunch of time with the albums that get frequent listens when I have the awareness of so many other possibilities that I do not take to that level.

craola
crayon master

Location: pdx

Tap wrote:

rkm wrote:

- Consuming vast quantities of music dilutes your ability to truly care about any of it

How much is vast? Because I listen to a lot of music, and I think it actually benefits my ability to care, like it's more significant for me to be spending a bunch of time with the albums that get frequent listens when I have the awareness of so many other possibilities that I do not take to that level.

back when the only music readily available was music i purchased, i gave a lot more time to albums that weren't all that great, dedicated to getting my money's worth. like, i had this offspring album that i really don't care much for, and i never have, but because i spent $10.99 on it back in the day, i know all the songs by heart.

i wouldn't go so far as rkm to say that my ability to truly care about any of it is diluted though. there are certainly records i won't invest in long enough to care for, but i still don't care for that offspring record. on the whole, i think that consuming vast quantities of music has only diluted my fastidiousness. there are countless records i learned to love through context and repetition that i otherwise would never have given a second chance.
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rkm

You could draw a parallel between my “vast quantities of music” assertion and photography.

When I was a kid, the family camera was a film camera. Dad shot only 2 or three rolls of film a year (maybe 100 frames a year). Most of the photos aren’t that great, but they are potent with memory, due to the amount of times we would paw through the family albums as kids.

My kids were born in the digital age, and there are probably thousands of photos per year that exist in the abstract in a cloud somewhere. My kids love seeing them, but there is not the same attachment, it’s more of a random novelty when they come up, and it’s more work to wade through them.

For me, photography and music both deal with time and memory. In the digital age, we’re very much spoilt for choice. We feel that our primary task is to seek out the best of what’s out there, which amounts to digital distraction, because how can you know what’s best unless we check out everything? That takes a lot of time, and the catch is that time is the real commodity. You only have so much time, what are you going to do with it?

If your goal is, as mine is, to remember your life through music... to a degree it doesn’t matter what the music is (just like a bad childhood photograph can grow in importance with the passing of time, if it’s the only photograph). Really, it doesn’t seem to matter if it’s the best music, as long as it’s emotionally resonant, helps you deal with something at the time, or triggers memory for some other reason.

Obviously, people listen to music for all sorts of reasons, but when I say “care about music”, I’m not talking about a general attitude of knowing what you like, I’m referring to when specific music becomes part of the fabric of your life.