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JOSweetHeart
Gender: Female
Age: 41
Location: East Tennessee
- #21
- Posted: 06/05/2015 23:15
- Post subject:
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| Revolution909 wrote: | | JOSweetHeart wrote: | This is a message about this issue that I just saw at another forum that I go to.
He can take all the hormones he wants and surgically alter himself (ick) but when his corpse is dug up 500 years from now, scientists will classify him as a male. He's got serious mental problems and the money to pretend he's something that he isn't.
Ya can't change DNA
I was like, "Amen!"
God bless you always!!! 
Holly |
From a purely biological perspective, yes Caitlyn's cells will always contain that Y chromosome and thus could be classified as male. Barring some apocalyptic event where all of our collective digital and print footprint is destroyed, historians will be able to lend our future scientists a hand and clue them into the full picture as to Caitlyn's transition.
I detect a definite transphobic undercurrent to the post you quoted ("ick", "serious mental problems"). Why should Caitlyn and other transgender people settle for living a less than full life presenting as the wrong gender? No psychiatric or psychological intervention could effectively alter their identity, to my knowledge. If there was, people may choose not to seek such treatment, akin to how LGB people come to terms with and embrace their orientation.
At the end of the day, transitioning can make transgender people feel happy and fulfilled, which trumps all other considerations in my opinion. To follow the logic of your quoted post, gay people should just settle and act heterosexually, despite the emotional harm this would cause.
So needless to say I strongly disagree with your post. |
Oh well. Where y'all choose to stand on this matter does not change where it is that I choose to stand on the matter.
God bless you always!!!
Holly
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- #22
- Posted: 06/05/2015 23:16
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| permafrost wrote: | | do you also insist that every human is actually, on average, 7.5 pounds "underneath" whatever their current weight is? 'cause that's how they were born. |
you still haven't answered my question
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JOSweetHeart
Gender: Female
Age: 41
Location: East Tennessee
- #23
- Posted: 06/05/2015 23:19
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I do however have one more thing to say and then I am done with this subject. If you can't respect where another person chooses to stand on anything, don't go looking for any respect in return for where ever it is that you choose to stand on anything because you most likely will not get any.
God bless you always!!!
Holly
_________________
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Check him out here when you can!
Last edited by JOSweetHeart on 06/05/2015 23:20; edited 2 times in total
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Revolution909
Age: 29
Location: Galway, Ireland's 4th City 
- #24
- Posted: 06/05/2015 23:19
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| HigherThanTheSun wrote: | I know that costs relating to gender reassignment and issues of gender dysphoria in general are covered by the nhs in the uk but where surgery starts being considered cosmetic rather than essential for transition I don't know. I'd imagine that a lot of what Caitlyn had done would not have been covered by the nhs. For a lot of people who are beyond puberty I'd guess it's going to cost a lot of money to get somewhere near passable. Also I'd guess the issue of rejection from family and employers is pretty much par for the course for transgendered.
There is a great Louis Theroux documentary Transgender Kids which looks at the issue pretty objectively and obviously it's great anyway just for being Louis Theroux. It looks at the risk of taking action with kids who might later regret it vs the risk of not acting before/during puberty and leaving people with bodies they'll never be happy with eg if I was transgender I'd probably never pass as a woman from now but if I'd acted at early teens I'd no doubt be a pretty girl now haha
Overall I'd say the struggle of transgender people is pretty serious but there's a lot can be done to improve things so |
I think the prevention of puberty is a great idea, hypothetically at least because I'm not up to date on the possible health implications.
I think the health detriments would want to be terrible before I would be put of postponing puberty, had I been in that situation. The emotinal and mental health consequences of going through the wrong kind of puberty are terrible, I've read.
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- #25
- Posted: 06/05/2015 23:25
- Post subject:
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| JOSweetHeart wrote: | I do however have one more thing to say and then I am done with this subject. If you can't respect where another person chooses to stand on anything, don't go looking for any respect in return for where ever it is that you choose to stand on anything because you most likely will not get any.
God bless you always!!!
Holly |
Your desire to respect and be respected would shine much more clearly if you didn't intentionally post incendiary comments in a thread made with the intention of openly and plainly exploring gender (not sex, but I'm not going to be the one to spell all this out right this second) and that, it appears, has already been responded to and followed by people who don't consider themselves entirely cisgender. It's one thing to be diplomatic in stating your position and another to just kind of be a fucking creep, say something that is potentially very triggering for someone who is transgender or dysphoric themselves, and then demand respect when people call you out in silly ways as I did.
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Revolution909
Age: 29
Location: Galway, Ireland's 4th City
- #26
- Posted: 06/05/2015 23:41
- Post subject:
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| benpaco wrote: | Wow y'all have very little faith in humanity if you think we're going to be digging up the graves of the rich and the famous in 500 years to try and figure out just who they were.
| Revolution909 wrote: |
That's really cool how you're ex is able to be open, especially with her strongly Christian upbringing.
Personally, I dislike being labelled as a male or a boy or a man. It grates with me slightly and I never refer to myself using such terms. I always say person. And when people say things that may insinuate that I have feminine traits, things that I know would annoy guys that I know, I couldn't care less.
I have no big yearning to physically present myself as "more female" or even "less male", so I don't know if that makes me genderqueer or non-gendered (which is how I would describe my feelings) or something. It probably means I dislike being labelled, and the inevitable presumptions that come with them. |
Well her parents don't exactly know yet cuz they dressed pretty gender neutral to begin with, but she's been fairly open with her friends so there's that.
And I get you. Honestly the dividing line is just stupid. I have XX chromosomes and XY chromosomes in me because biology is weird. I have enough XY chromosomes to be a male, but enough XX chromosomes to show some of the characteristics of a female. So where does that land me? On the binary scale, it's easy. And I can't say I'm particularly interested in more "girly" things but I am more sensitive, hormonal, and probably most notably, have some physical differences from your average guy. It's all just a dumb line.
Again, just love each other, love yourselves, accept each other, accept yourselves. How hard is that? That's the thing I never got - pretend this is a choice. [It is not a choice at all, but let's play by that idea set] WHY DO YOU CARE? It doesn't impact you whatsoever if someone else chooses a lifestyle that makes them happier. There's no argument I've really ever heard of why this matters that holds any weight at all
Oh, and great to have you back, bud. Your presence on the site was missed. |
BIB: Aww thanks, I'm going to endeavor to maintain a more consistant presence on BEA for the next few months and hopefully beyond. Life just happened A LOT over the past few months but things have equilibriated somewhat since then. So YAY 
Back to the meat of your post. I did a module encompassing genetic anomalies and you're totally right in saying that biology is weird. I hope that it hasn't caused you any physical or mental health difficulties, some chromosomal abnormalities can have very debilitating consequences.
I echo your sentiments or acceptance and tolerance. Society would be better if more people had this outlook.
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Revolution909
Age: 29
Location: Galway, Ireland's 4th City
- #27
- Posted: 06/05/2015 23:42
- Post subject:
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| meccalecca wrote: | | JOSweetHeart wrote: |
[b]He can take all the hormones he wants and surgically alter himself (ick) but when his corpse is dug up 500 years from now, scientists will classify him as a male. |
Although the Y chromosome remains, I really doubt Jenner was concerned with how a scientist/historian will perceive him 500 years from now. This is entirely about living life the way how Jenner desired. Unless you believe in reincarnation (which I highly doubt), then you believe that you only get one life to live. And since you only get one life to live, then why not live it the way you want and the way that you feel will make you happiest? Isn't that what life is supposed to be about. Societal standards often force people to live unhappily for the entirety of their lives for no reason other than fear of how people will treat them. |
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Top 100 Music Albums of the 2010s
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Revolution909
Age: 29
Location: Galway, Ireland's 4th City
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Revolution909
Age: 29
Location: Galway, Ireland's 4th City
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland 
Moderator
- #30
- Posted: 06/06/2015 01:01
- Post subject:
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| permafrost wrote: | | JOSweetHeart wrote: | I do however have one more thing to say and then I am done with this subject. If you can't respect where another person chooses to stand on anything, don't go looking for any respect in return for where ever it is that you choose to stand on anything because you most likely will not get any.
God bless you always!!!
Holly |
Your desire to respect and be respected would shine much more clearly if you didn't intentionally post incendiary comments in a thread made with the intention of openly and plainly exploring gender (not sex, but I'm not going to be the one to spell all this out right this second) and that, it appears, has already been responded to and followed by people who don't consider themselves entirely cisgender. It's one thing to be diplomatic in stating your position and another to just kind of be a fucking creep, say something that is potentially very triggering for someone who is transgender or dysphoric themselves, and then demand respect when people call you out in silly ways as I did. |
Yea definitely this, and also the major key point: the difference between gender (how you define yourself) and sex (how you are defined medically/scientifically), a distinction that far too many people don't believe exists.
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