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| Poll: Reggae |
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| Yes |
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48% |
[24] |
| No |
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24% |
[12] |
| In between |
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26% |
[13] |
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| Total Votes : 49 |
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| Author |
Message |
Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment 
- #51
- Posted: 10/31/2016 22:30
- Post subject:
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Thanks for the post there, a very good listen!
But that's more than just reggae. As I'm sure you know, reggae has been known to incorporate other forms, just as other forms often incorporate reggae. A lot of music is some form of hybrid. That seemed more like reggae dudes playing jazz-blues than anything. The one universally acknowledged element of reggae found in any definition of the genre is "strongly accentuated offbeat." That example really doesn't rely on that. In any case, if you want to call that reggae because it's being played by Rastafarians, so be it. I'll accept it and acknowledge that I dig it.
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- #52
- Posted: 10/31/2016 22:37
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On a slightly more pleasant note, Jimmy, have you ever heard this album?
Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.
Wild Suspense by Wailing Souls
(There's an alternative album cover that I prefer, but this is the one on the site so whatever)
I never see anyone talk about it, but I can't help feeling this is really one of the best reggae albums I've ever heard. It's off of Island Records, so it's slightly more accessible reggae. It reminds me a lot of The Congos and Mighty Diamonds. If you want to give it a shot, I should be able to send a link over your way.
The opening track is a cover of (or slight ripoff? I forget) of Fisherman, but it's pretty solid.
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Jimmy Dread
Old skool like Happy Shopper
Location: 555 Dub Street 
Moderator
- #53
- Posted: 10/31/2016 23:24
- Post subject:
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| Fischman wrote: | | Thanks for the post there, a very good listen! |
Glad you liked it.
| Fischman wrote: | | But that's more than just reggae. As I'm sure you know, reggae has been known to incorporate other forms, just as other forms often incorporate reggae. A lot of music is some form of hybrid. That seemed more like reggae dudes playing jazz-blues than anything. The one universally acknowledged element of reggae found in any definition of the genre is "strongly accentuated offbeat." That example really doesn't rely on that. In any case, if you want to call that reggae because it's being played by Rastafarians, so be it. I'll accept it and acknowledge that I dig it. |
Interesting, because that is undoubtedly, unshakably roots reggae. Not dub (it wasn't a riddim tweaked and twisted by an engineer or producer - being a JA instrumental doesn't automatically qualify something as such), not dancehall, not any other JA 'reggae' sub-genre, not jazz (although Pablo plays a mean harmonica - Jamaicans can be techincally proficient, you know). And as something of a genre Nazi when it comes to Jamaican music I can say that without any hesitation. I mean, the second track (Java) has all the hallmarks you cite - the 'strongly-accentuated offbeat' (which can be heard throughout and the rhythm guitarist can be seen playing from the 6:20 mark onwards), that snare fill at 5:19, the time sig, the prominence of the bass - the lot. And the third track even more so.
The difference between the 'reggae' you've likely heard and subsequently dismissed (which is why I asked you to cite examples of the aforementioned stuff that bored you senseless) is that Pablo's free-form melodica here takes centre-stage, like Coltrane's sax or Davis' trumpet. It's a far cry from the over-produced saccharine bollocks of a lot of 'reggae' that was watered down for rock audiences, c.f. Island Records getting white session musicians in to make Marley's records more accessible to a foreign audience. For the record, I'm no Marley fan either - I find his 'reggae' far too bland musically in spite some of the lyrical sentimentality. Sometimes you've got to dig a bit deeper, go into the darker corners and polish off the dust to find the prize.
The fact Pablo's a Rasta (can't speak for the Soul Syndicate) is a critical point. His faith counts for nothing and everything. Nothing because from a technical point of view it would still be reggae if it were played by Eskimos dressed in grass skirts. Everything because the self-determination fed by a sense of national and spiritual pride that Rastas got from an independent Jamaica and Groundation Day (when Haile Selassie visited in '66 - won't go into Rastafari theology, sure you know all about it) directly fuels and governs the music. It's the whole desire to have their own music which drives the entire Jamaican music industry, not just Rastafari. Sure, they may borrow here-and-there (ska took from New Orleans R&B which travelling Jamaicans bought back to the island with them after working in the States - when the new sounds dried up, they took to creating their own music), but for a country of some 3 million people the rich tapestry of Jamaican music (as well as its evolution from ska to reggae to dancehall to ragga) is nothing short of remarkable, considering some in the UK/US still value hoary old rock music as the zenith of all popular music forms.
Without knowing you, and without wanting to offend, for someone who is supposedly so well-versed in such a myriad of different musical forms I was pretty surprised (and hacked off) when you described 'reggae' as one-dimensional and mind-numbing. Because, as the video in the previous post (and a whole load of others I could put up) prove, it bloody well is anything but that. As with all genres, there's wheat and chaff. Part of being on BEA is the joy of finding things that you never would have entertained listening to before you joined (don't tell anyone, but I listened to a Sun Ra album earlier and actually enjoyed it. Jimmy Hates Jazz, by the way  ). The one sure-fire way to alienate yourself from the forum regulars is to come out with a misguided bombast and dismiss genres out-of-hand unless you can explain with about 100 examples (make a chart) as to why it is so shit. Take it from me - not only is there something in virtually every genre that will make your ears prick up and listen with love from time to time, but someone on BEA will unquestionably know more about music than you do and won't be afraid to let you know about it. Well, at least that was true before JMan left.
One love.
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'Reggae' & t'ing
Folk 'n Stuff
SHAMELESS RECORD DEALER PLUG
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Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment
- #54
- Posted: 11/01/2016 00:08
- Post subject:
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Rock music largely has a heavy beat on the 2 and the 4 of each measure.
Reggae generally relies on repetitive syncopation.
In reality, the only difference between the two is the tempo of the music and the level of emphasis relative to everything else that's going on. This "off" beats here at this pace, and at a very mild level relative to the rest of the music, sound more like a 2 and a 4 than a syncopation.
Now at the 6 minute mark, things do change quite a bit. And for me, that beat becomes maddening over the long run (although the melody/improvisation being laid over the top of it is pleasant enough at times). At the 10:50 mark, that overwhelming off beat becomes even more maddening, especially after the previous song. Again, as a point of emphasis to enhance, it works great, but to do the same thing throughout an entire 4 minute song is, to me, mind numbingly repetitive, even if the soloing is great (which it isn't IMO, especially on the latter songs). Those last two songs are perfect examples of why I can't listen to reggae.
But even in the first song, which I like, although it sounds different, it's still the same beat, which goes to the core of my criticism of the genre. That's always the beat. Again, the genre is structurally narrow. The drum fills, interesting though they may be, are the frosting, but the core cake remains the same. In the end your examples all just reinforced my impression of reggae, especially after you pointed out that even the first song does indeed have the syncopated beat.
So lets be happy I like the first song and call it a day. As you say, there is something in every genre that can prick my ears. While I generally can't stand Rap or Country, there are examples I really like. Thanks to you, I now have at least one example of reggae I can dig as well.
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Graeme2
Gender: Male
Location: The Upside Down
- #55
- Posted: 11/01/2016 11:53
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I love reggae. Not that sell out crap like ub40, that real ish like early The Police and what's that bloke, aye Marley. Shame he made only one album, but it's great. The real deal though, pure trenchtown riddims aye
Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.
Legend by Bob Marley And The Wailers
Smoke a large one with it for pure authentic vibe. Irie.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
- #56
- Posted: 11/02/2016 04:06
- Post subject:
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| Graeme2 wrote: | I love reggae. Not that sell out crap like ub40, that real ish like early The Police and what's that bloke, aye Marley. Shame he made only one album, but it's great. The real deal though, pure trenchtown riddims aye
Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.
Legend by Bob Marley And The Wailers
Smoke a large one with it for pure authentic vibe. Irie. |
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