Albums that have staying power for me are albums that are good. Hard to not say the simple thing, right?
So for me, an album to be good, it usually has 1) an amazing set of songs (not just a couple hits or something), 2) takes me somewhere (so I guess that means I connected to it at both an intellectual and emotional level) 3) each song on the album creates this experience so when I'm done with it, I feel satisfied (emotionally and intellectually).
Some albums do all of the things listed above better than others, and therefore they are ranked higher for me and I see them as artistically stronger than others.
Albums that have staying power for me are albums that are good. Hard to not say the simple thing, right?
But what does this really mean? Why's it good? Why are you able to connect with it more than other albums? why does it satisfy you? And even if it satisfies you now, will that satisfaction last as you evolve as a person? _________________ http://jonnyleather.com
This is the only reason why I tolerate listening to Britney Spears or NSYNC... I hated them growing up, but somehow I'll listen to it if it comes on the radio just to remember simpler times.
Do I still dislike listening to those artists, yes, but it's not the artist or the song, it's the association.
On the flip side of nostalgia there's stuff that I listened to when I was a teenager that I just wouldn't consider seriously anymore. Probably the first group to come to mind is the Mighty Mighty Bosstones. I mean, they aren't particularly terrible, but I've just grown out of that kinda stuff.
I do think what I grew up with still has some kind of effect on me for my favorite music. Stuff my dad listened to in the 1950s and 1960s, then what my oldest brother and sister listened to in the 80s and 90s... and then my other brother who directs the Woodstock Symphony Orchestra and his "art music" influences...if I didn't have those influences growing up I'm pretty sure I'd be like my friends who don't really like the Rolling Stones/Beatles/Elvis/Shostakovich/R.E.M./U2/Nirvana, etc.
What's funny is I feel in some aspects I was introduced into those things by them, but then I delved deeper into them than they did (not sure if anyone in my family has listened to Exile on Main Street all the way through for example, we were more a Hot Rocks, best of for the Stones in my family).
So influence plays a key role, but specific items due to specific nostalgic moments... nah I don't have any of those
Except for maybe road trips and this album... somehow that was the album that everyone agreed to listen to (my mom wasn't really a fan of any of the music the rest of us liked... she was into Gloria Estefan, who I later appreciated a little, but when I was a kid I thought was terrible):
But what does this really mean? Why's it good? Why are you able to connect with it more than other albums? why does it satisfy you? And even if it satisfies you now, will that satisfaction last as you evolve as a person?
I'll restate this, but I realize you wanted more... but just want it here to refer back to:
So for me, an album to be good, it usually has 1) an amazing set of songs (not just a couple hits or something), 2) takes me somewhere (so I guess that means I connected to it at both an intellectual and emotional level) 3) each song on the album creates this experience so when I'm done with it, I feel satisfied (emotionally and intellectually).
Let's take the album the Joshua Tree as an example to answer my own criteria and then your questions.
1) For me there's not a single song on the Joshua Tree that sucks... if I skipped half the album... it wouldn't have much staying power, right?
2) When I turn this album on, right from the beginning it captures my attention... it peaks both my emotional and intellectual interest by both being "spiritually" enlightening (emotional) while also being musically enticing (intellectual). I feel it maintains this peaked interest throughout the record for me. It also has lyrics that somehow I associate with... running to stand still, I want to run/I want to hide/I want to tear down these walls that hold me inside/running into the arms of America (meant ironically), etc. Why it speaks to my soul and my intellect, I don't really know... but those are a few examples and I associate those emotions and thoughts with them... MOST IMPORTANTLY, I truly connect with it and get "lost" in it... meaning my experience at the time of listening to it stops being me listening to it, and I start being acted upon... almost a bit like Reader Response theory (the music only becomes alive when I live it).
I guess the big question is why does this record have this effect on me and another album doesn't... I HAVE NO IDEA... I think the person that can answer that question would be a lucky person indeed (outside of the obvious answers I suppose).
I'd love to have this question answered because it may be the key to loving new music again (I feel a bit out of touch with the top albums of 2015). I think the last new artist I loved... truly loved, not just liked was As Tall As Lions... but they broke up.
3) When I finish listening to Mothers of the Disappeared... I have this mental, spiritual high, and I want to come back for more. I think this has to do with classical conditioning, right? If you have an enjoyable experience time and time again, you are going to come back for more (hence staying power).
But what does this really mean?
I think that was answered in 1-3 above?
Why's it good?
This is probably 3,000 years of philosophical debate, right? haha.
I think I gave my answers? I find something good if it makes me feel intellectually and emotionally "bettered"... it in of itself doesn't need to be a "good" thing... we are "bettered" by terrible things all the time. I feel "bettered" by NIN Hurt for example. Why, well I've been numb before and I know what it's like to feel so isolated that the only feeling you can feel is pain. I also know what it's like to burn all your bridges (possibly by proxy as well as I knew someone who dealt with serious heroine addiction and connected that way too).
Why are you able to connect with it more than other albums?
Something tells me it had more to do with me than the album... but maybe that's only 70% or less correct. I guess what I mean with this is if I didn't have the maturity or intellectual/emotional patience for something to be truly appreciated, I'll miss out on it.
why does it satisfy you? And even if it satisfies you now, will that satisfaction last as you evolve as a person?
It probably satisfies me because I can relate to it easily. What I mean by that is I have had the same experiences emotionally, I have a similar education as that person, etc.
I think it's more difficult for someone (for the first time... if they've heard it before, it doesn't quite apply) to immediately fall in love with a type of music they have never heard before (completely foreign, like music from ancient china), because that experience in of itself doesn't allow for something you can connect with. I realize that statement isn't completely true... emotion is in all music and emotion is universal, so why wouldn't you... well take a high schooler who loves Justin Bieber and then make her listen to ancient chinese music. We all know the reaction. You probably had that same reaction just trying to get that person to listen to the Beatles.
This depends. I think it depends on how I change as a person. Will my entire value system change, will my paradigm shift be so great that I can't find myself attached to certain things any more?
I'll let you guys in on a little secret. 12 years ago I served a Mormon mission when I was 19 and served in Munich and Vienna. I grew up Mormon, so my value system didn't change, but I did live the "religion" to it's fullest from 6:30am to 10:30pm. And in all earnest (meaning I whole-heartedly chose to be there, as not all do). I was only allowed to listen to music written before 1900 (little did they know what that really meant, what they mean was classical, but hey, I won't split hairs or push boundaries) or church hymns. Luckily for me, I already listened to music from before 1900. Anyways, it's not like when I came back home from that 2 year stint I then couldn't listen to the Joshua Tree ever again... but maybe for someone that became a monk and did that the rest of their lives and then 20 years later tried listening to it, yeah, they probably wouldn't dig it anymore. (I'm no longer Mormon, by the way, but the experience of being a Mormon missionary was still the greatest thing I did with my life [probably more so because my thoughts, actions, and words were actually truly in harmony in purpose ALL day long]... it really almost is like being a monk, except monks don't bother other people).
Interestingly enough, when I came home from that experience, I felt like my musical palate was the most clean ever... I wasn't stuck on... but it isn't the Greatest Band ever so it's not good. I was able to appreciate things at face value better. So maybe we should all do that... don't listen to anything past 1900 for 2 years and then come back to the site? haha.
Previously I talked about maturity as well. Some things are at a level of maturity that even when you are 60 you will still appreciate them (if you still love music, some people sadly loose all touch with music at that age because it was more a social thing for them or something) and somethings you liked when you were 16 and now that you are 40, it might even be that the quality of music isn't bad per se, it just doesn't meet your maturity level.
Thank you Seth. This is such an excellent in depth response. I hope you didn't think I was being annoying with my questioning. I'm just from the understanding that questions upon questions often lead to insight. Even our questions become insightful and provide us with knowledge we didn't previously possess. I love what you bring up about maturity. And maybe that's why you and I have both moved on from stuff like Mighty Mighty Bosstones (which I was also really into) and especially NOFX for me. The music's often immature attitude and lyrics meant a lot to me back when I was a young teen, but now hits me more like a shitty fart joke in a bad Adam Sandler movie now.
Your story about serving as a Mormon missionary when you were younger is really fascinating. Did only being able to listen to classical music lead you to appreciating it more than previously? Did you come across modern music during the span of time (like in travel), or was it truly nothing but classical the entire time? And was returning home and hearing modern music you liked again similar to reacquainting yourself with an old friend?
Sorry for the multitude of questions. Genuinely interested. _________________ http://jonnyleather.com
BUT...I've had the opposite experience a lot. Albums that dd not make a particularly strong impression at first becoming elevated in my eyes through repeated listens over many years.
Yeah that's definitely happened to me a lot. There's a lot of albums that the first time I listen to it I really don't see the big deal, but as I listen to it more I really start to "get it" and enjoy it. That happened to me with Led Zeppelin IV, The Stone Roses, Daydream Nation, Doolittle, and many other albums, and there are albums that I hope this will happen. For example, I really love Only Shallow by My Bloody Valentine, but I can't seem to get into the rest of the album, but I believe that if I keep listening to the album, I'll eventually "get it" like I "got" the other albums I mentioned.
But more of a direct response to the original question, I think for me personally, I find myself returning to the albums where I sense a much deeper meaning. For example, I really really loved The Magic Whip, released by Blur last year, and it's in the top 15 of my all time chart, which you might think is weird, but I love it so much because when I listen to it I get the sense that Blur, especially Damon Albarn, had something really deep in mind that they were trying to say by making this album, and I don't fully understand it, and most people don't fully understand it, but still I know it's there, and that's why I always return to it. That's also why I love In Rainbows, Dark Side of the Moon, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, Funeral, Origin of Symmetry, and many other albums. _________________ These are my favorite albums right now.
BUT...I've had the opposite experience a lot. Albums that dd not make a particularly strong impression at first becoming elevated in my eyes through repeated listens over many years.
There's a lot of albums that the first time I listen to it I really don't see the big deal, but as I listen to it more I really start to "get it" and enjoy it.
Why do we think this is? I think we all have experienced it.
Is it maturity, is it being in the right frame of mind (what is the right frame of mind?), or what is it?
Also is it familiarity? I touched on this a little... the more you have familiarity to something I think the easier it is to connect to? The first time you listen to something you don't have that familiarity, but the more you listen to it, the more you do?
Thank you Seth. This is such an excellent in depth response. I hope you didn't think I was being annoying with my questioning. I'm just from the understanding that questions upon questions often lead to insight. Even our questions become insightful and provide us with knowledge we didn't previously possess. I love what you bring up about maturity. And maybe that's why you and I have both moved on from stuff like Mighty Mighty Bosstones (which I was also really into) and especially NOFX for me. The music's often immature attitude and lyrics meant a lot to me back when I was a young teen, but now hits me more like a shitty fart joke in a bad Adam Sandler movie now.
Haha, yup.
meccalecca wrote:
Your story about serving as a Mormon missionary when you were younger is really fascinating. Did only being able to listen to classical music lead you to appreciating it more than previously? Did you come across modern music during the span of time (like in travel), or was it truly nothing but classical the entire time? And was returning home and hearing modern music you liked again similar to reacquainting yourself with an old friend?
Sorry for the multitude of questions. Genuinely interested.
Did only being able to listen to classical music lead you to appreciating it more than previously?
A greater appreciation... maybe not. I grew up in a home that appreciated it really well. I went to the Symphony for at least 5 professional concerts and then another 5-10 of my brothers and sisters every year from the time I was about 8 years old until I was 16 years old... and then my brother would basically force me to listen to his classical music every night before we went to bed (we shared a room). Mahler, Beethoven, Mozart, Shostakovich, etc. were household names.
Did I listen to it more often out of "choice"... you bet. As much as I, at the time, enjoyed hymns, I chose classical music probably 70% of the time and purchased a few albums more than what I brought with me (I lived off 150 Euro for all living expenses except for rent/utilities for the month, so buying a record wasn't something I could do often).
Did you come across modern music during the span of time (like in travel), or was it truly nothing but classical the entire time?
Other than the two instances below, I didn't have any contact with "modern music".
I taught college students often either English or Mormonism, so for some reason the Black Eyed Peas song Humps was REALLY popular at the time and was blasting from every dorm room.
This song was blasted from my neighbor from time to time.
And was returning home and hearing modern music you liked again similar to reacquainting yourself with an old friend?
Honestly I felt a little like the stuff I listened to was a bit too dark (Radiohead's album at the time was Hail to the Thief, which has this feeling of ZERO hope for me), and since I came home to such a high in my life, even though I love it now and loved it before, I didn't relate to it anymore, so no, it took some warming up to. Honestly all "modern life" took some warming up to. Hanging out with the opposite sex, going to a movie, having "leisure time" wasn't really anything I did for 2 years.
I also appreciated things I didn't appreciate before. Julio Englcias for example... I thought he was a crock before my mission, and after somehow I was more open to recognize his talents.
BUT...I've had the opposite experience a lot. Albums that dd not make a particularly strong impression at first becoming elevated in my eyes through repeated listens over many years.
There's a lot of albums that the first time I listen to it I really don't see the big deal, but as I listen to it more I really start to "get it" and enjoy it.
Why do we think this is? I think we all have experienced it.
I think this is something common with many records we'd regard to have "staying power". I also think there's a lot of different causes. There was a time in which I didn't really enjoy Neil Young. His songs were generally uneventful/boring to me. Then I got older, mellowed out, and could relate to what he was singing about, and suddenly his music became incredibly meaningful to me.
Oddly enough, I think subtle and minimal can often take as much time to appreciate as the complex music talked about earlier in this thread. Also, lyrical depth often passes over me within the first couple listens. I hear words and the sounds of the voice, but don't usual absorb the meaning/message with immediately listens. _________________ http://jonnyleather.com
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