BREXIT - Politics & Religion - Forums : Best Ever Albums

19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

Yeah that is interesting. What kind of position will the UK aim to take in regards to EU, you think you will at least go Norway way and continue in EEA and EFTA? How much of an independence do Brexiters propose exactly?

And is this like any referendum in my country, where it's less about the subject matter and more about an ideological battle, and people mainly decide as a vote of confidence for the politicians that supported each option - i.e. is this just the voters saying fuck Cameron and expressing support for the far right (as in, Farage...)?
Or were people actually deciding based on arguments?

alelsupreme
Awful.

Gender: Male
Age: 27

This was very much an argument driven battle, with worries about immigration trumping economic concerns.
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Hayden

Christ, Cameron RESIGNED?
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Jimmy Dread
Old skool like Happy Shopper

Location: 555 Dub Street

Moderator

Hayden wrote:

Christ, Cameron RESIGNED?

Yep. Didn't have much choice TBH. He'd nailed his colours to the mast and that was that. Perhaps the only positive thing to come out of this whole debacle at the moment.

I had both feet firmly planted in the Remain camp, but more because there were certain elements of our relationship with Europe that I felt were working very well. There were so many reasons why things went to pot, some of which more relevant to the argument than others:

- the pre-referendum campaign was fought on a mandate of fear on both sides. Leave were playing the immigration card to such ridiculous degrees that they were basically saying (in a nutshell) "if you vote to Leave, all those nasty foreigners will stop coming and stealing your jobs, getting ahead of you in the queue at the doctor's surgery, taking their benefit money out the country and sending it back home, drive your wages down as they'll work for a lot less than the Great British Working Man, yadda yadda yadda". It's all a farce, of course, because European health care professionals contribute so much to the NHS (I remember a lovely Polish oncologist who was so good to my Mum before she died of cancer), take all the jobs the British working class think are below them (things like fruit picking, for example, which relies heavily on European labour will be completely screwed) and in paying taxes positively contribute. Of course, Godfrey and Enid sitting on the pier in Great Yarmouth couldn't give a stuff for that, because all they care about is making sure they get an appointment with the doctor to sort out their ingrowing toenail before Johnny Foreigner does.

Remain weren't much better either. All this scaremongering did my head in, and in spite of the result the General Public aren't that thick to think that if we vote out the country will melt and we'll all live in caves and electricity will run out and no-one will have shoes and all dogs will have rabies and all that bollocks. Cameron ran a rubbish campaign without any credibility, the floating voters weren't presented the facts, the warnings of the people in power/influence were treated with scorn by the rejected members of an increasingly London-based governance (white blue-collar workers, the elderly, the Welsh). It wasn't a vote to Leave in so much as it was a vote to rebel.

- Cameron and the ruling elite. Most of the talk as the first results came through was all about the white working class using the vote as a protest to stick 2 fingers up at the Government and say 'we're fed up with having no money, no jobs and the price of cigs going up'. Fair enough, but this was a vote on a massive international issue rather than something that a General Election (i.e. dissatisfaction with the current Government) should have addressed.

- London. It absolutely pissed it down here yesterday. Trains were cancelled, roads flooding, Waterloo station was closed due to overcrowding. I know a number of people who couldn't get home to vote. Might be small fry in all fairness given the end result, but it at least contributes.

- General disenfranchisement with politics amongst the young. Sure, the younger vote was vastly in favour of Remain, but where the bloody hell were they all? I spoke to a couple of guys who worked for me yesterday and asked if they were going to vote. They said they couldn't be bothered. Well, if your mortgage goes up or you have to spend more on your holidays because the £ has fallen through the floor you've got no right to moan about it. Twats.

- Labour. Corbyn didn't want in - it goes against his fundamental beliefs, regardless of where he supposedly stood publicly. He hardly bothered to campaign, despite all the supposed 'grass roots' support he had in Labour heartlands that swept him to power in the first place meaning that he could have made a real impact if he'd put the effort in instead of appearing on Channel 4 comedy shows. It's the same grass roots in the North, Midlands and Wales that felt so disenchanted with rule from a London elite that seem increasingly out of touch with what's really going on in some of the most deprived areas of the country that made such a decisive move towards Leave that made such an impact in these areas.

Listen, we can all analysis the tits off everything until we're blue in the face, but the fact remains (pardon the pun) that we've got to deal with the repercussions. I'm personally gutted, but I'll get on with things as I always do. It's my son's future I worry for - a natural reaction as a parent - especially one which has been decided by an aging population who (and without wanting to sound prejudiced) are inherently suspicious of multiculturalism and can't often see beyond their own noses. This country, and a high percentage of its population, are in need of serious education as to the real facts - they were sold a dream of isolationism based purely on the fact that immigrants = bad news for all of us. In my experience that couldn't be further from the truth.

I went to bed last night in Great Britain, and woke up in Little England.
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Skinny
birdman_handrub.gif

This is going to be a fucking disaster. We've let the "bring back hanging" brigade off the leash again, and fuck knows where it will take us.
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Sometype

Gender: Male
Age: 27

nothing but disappointment and resentment. never felt so unpatriotic in my entire life.
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HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

Jimmy Dread wrote:

Yep. Didn't have much choice TBH. He'd nailed his colours to the mast and that was that. Perhaps the only positive thing to come out of this whole debacle at the moment.

I don't see how it's a positive when you look at the cons who want to replace him. Fucking Chris Grayling refused to answer this morning whether he was considering running or not. If Boris Johnson is our best hope then we're fucked I'd take DC every day

Cameron's campaign was dreadful but at least it wasn't as bad as leave's who have flat out lied and conned their way to victory and at least he actually tried. If just a small percent of labour voters could have been persuaded to stay it would have swung it but when the party leader says he's "no great fan" of the eu and his passion for staying in the eu is "7 out of 10" when he's on the fucking campaign trail it's a joke. Traditional labour voters turned out for leave in a huge way and any half decent labour leader would have been able to deal with it. Fuck johnson for campaigning leave but fuck corbyn for barely even bothering to campaign stay.

It's a disaster for the uk but also probably for the whole continent and potentially the world. Our public finances could quickly become a mess as investment into the uk slows, so people had better get used to higher taxes or more spending cuts - the lie from leave that they're going to increase nhs spending because they'll save money from leaving the eu will seem like a sick joke. Scotland and even NI could split from the uk and some countries on the continent might decide to follow the uk out of the eu - the uk and the continent could fracture and the influence of the uk/europe/the west on the world could shrink rapidly. We'll get a boris/ gove type pm and if scotland leave then the rest of us will be locked in to con governments forever and will go backwards once they have a decent majority that they haven't had for 20 years.

I hate what it says about us a country. Basically we want to pretend globalism hasn't happened and become an inward looking nothing little island in the world. The major cities and young people voted overwhelmingly in favour of remain and it feels like a betrayal. I'm genuinely really worried about where our country is heading after this and angry and upset in way I've never been at a political decision before. Not sure I can overstate how rough this feels right now for so many people in the uk I started crying talking about it earlier

Jimmy Dread wrote:

I went to bed last night in Great Britain, and woke up in Little England.

Basically this
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Romanelli
Bone Swah

Gender: Male
Location: Broomfield, Colorado

Moderator

alelsupreme wrote:

This was very much an argument driven battle, with worries about immigration trumping economic concerns.

Hmm...

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Allabaster

That is unfortunate, but do not be too scared, it is but a hiccup. They dream of a world that can never return.

meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

I don't see how it's a positive when you look at the cons who want to replace him. Fucking Chris Grayling refused to answer this morning whether he was considering running or not. If Boris Johnson is our best hope then we're fucked I'd take DC every day

I don't know enough about the situation, but you'd have to hope that this wakes up the population and stirs up enough proper outrage that the people bring in a better replacement for Cameron
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