The Gender Identity and Transgender Thread - Lounge

HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

Revolution909 wrote:

Over the course of the last few days, I have read about the economic struggles that transgendered people encounter. This is where I feel the Caitlyn Jenner story falls down. Financial means hasn't really come up regarding Caitlyn's (not doubt quite costly) transition. I hope that as society as a whole moves to come to terms with trans issues, some consideration is given to how transgendered people are often extremely economically disadvantaged (costly surgeries, familial abandonment, employment discrimination etc.)

I know that costs relating to gender reassignment and issues of gender dysphoria in general are covered by the nhs in the uk but where surgery starts being considered cosmetic rather than essential for transition I don't know. I'd imagine that a lot of what Caitlyn had done would not have been covered by the nhs. For a lot of people who are beyond puberty I'd guess it's going to cost a lot of money to get somewhere near passable. Also I'd guess the issue of rejection from family and employers is pretty much par for the course for transgendered.

There is a great Louis Theroux documentary Transgender Kids which looks at the issue pretty objectively and obviously it's great anyway just for being Louis Theroux. It looks at the risk of taking action with kids who might later regret it vs the risk of not acting before/during puberty and leaving people with bodies they'll never be happy with eg if I was transgender I'd probably never pass as a woman from now but if I'd acted at early teens I'd no doubt be a pretty girl now haha

Overall I'd say the struggle of transgender people is pretty serious but there's a lot can be done to improve things so
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JOSweetHeart

Gender: Female
Age: 41
Location: East Tennessee

This is a message about this issue that I just saw at another forum that I go to.

He can take all the hormones he wants and surgically alter himself (ick) but when his corpse is dug up 500 years from now, scientists will classify him as a male. He's got serious mental problems and the money to pretend he's something that he isn't.

Ya can't change DNA

I was like, "Amen!"

God bless you always!!! Smile

Holly
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Revolution909

Age: 29
Location: Galway, Ireland's 4th City

SuedeSwede wrote:

Non-gendered = agender, which is a kind of genderqueer. Guess this would be a good time to say I'm also agender, for the same reasons really.

That's cool to know, will have to look more into the shades of genderqueer that are out there. Smile

I imagine many people feel this way somewhat but have never thought to really investigate their feelings.
For me at least, it's not anywhere near as big an issue for me as being transgender is for others. At the end of the day, I can present myself as the sex into which I was born and feel comfortable.
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Revolution909

Age: 29
Location: Galway, Ireland's 4th City

HazeyTwilight wrote:

I've pondered this particular topic for a while now and been wondering if I really identify myself as transgender or not. I say that I'm leaning more towards being genderqueer or agender. I don't really act much like a male, yet I can't really say that I act entirely feminine either, although I think my feminine traits slightly outweigh the male traits. Although it may just be me wanting to appear different and never taking into account what others may be going through but at the same time I'm thinking about other examples I've researched and what their thought process was.

My feelings are strikingly similar to yours. That whole paragraph could have been extracted from my mind lol Very Happy

I haven't watched the Daily Show video yet, will check that out. Thankies for the link.
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benpaco
Who's gonna watch you die?

Age: 27
Location: California

JOSweetHeart wrote:

but when his corpse is dug up 500 years from now

Wow y'all have very little faith in humanity if you think we're going to be digging up the graves of the rich and the famous in 500 years to try and figure out just who they were.

Revolution909 wrote:

That's really cool how you're ex is able to be open, especially with her strongly Christian upbringing.

Personally, I dislike being labelled as a male or a boy or a man. It grates with me slightly and I never refer to myself using such terms. I always say person. And when people say things that may insinuate that I have feminine traits, things that I know would annoy guys that I know, I couldn't care less.
I have no big yearning to physically present myself as "more female" or even "less male", so I don't know if that makes me genderqueer or non-gendered (which is how I would describe my feelings) or something. It probably means I dislike being labelled, and the inevitable presumptions that come with them.

Well her parents don't exactly know yet cuz they dressed pretty gender neutral to begin with, but she's been fairly open with her friends so there's that.

And I get you. Honestly the dividing line is just stupid. I have XX chromosomes and XY chromosomes in me because biology is weird. I have enough XY chromosomes to be a male, but enough XX chromosomes to show some of the characteristics of a female. So where does that land me? On the binary scale, it's easy. And I can't say I'm particularly interested in more "girly" things but I am more sensitive, hormonal, and probably most notably, have some physical differences from your average guy. It's all just a dumb line.

Again, just love each other, love yourselves, accept each other, accept yourselves. How hard is that? That's the thing I never got - pretend this is a choice. [It is not a choice at all, but let's play by that idea set] WHY DO YOU CARE? It doesn't impact you whatsoever if someone else chooses a lifestyle that makes them happier. There's no argument I've really ever heard of why this matters that holds any weight at all

Oh, and great to have you back, bud. Your presence on the site was missed.
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason

Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment

JOSweetHeart wrote:

[b]He can take all the hormones he wants and surgically alter himself (ick) but when his corpse is dug up 500 years from now, scientists will classify him as a male.

Although the Y chromosome remains, I really doubt Jenner was concerned with how a scientist/historian will perceive him 500 years from now. This is entirely about living life the way how Jenner desired. Unless you believe in reincarnation (which I highly doubt), then you believe that you only get one life to live. And since you only get one life to live, then why not live it the way you want and the way that you feel will make you happiest? Isn't that what life is supposed to be about. Societal standards often force people to live unhappily for the entirety of their lives for no reason other than fear of how people will treat them.
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JOSweetHeart

Gender: Female
Age: 41
Location: East Tennessee

So how old was "Caitlyn" when she said her first word? How old was she when she first get her period? How old was she when she went on her first date as a teenager?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. Oh yeah that's right. She is really just a male underneath all that makeup and that is how I will always look at those who follow in Bruce's foot steps...even if I do my walking alone on the matter.
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Last edited by JOSweetHeart on 06/05/2015 23:13; edited 1 time in total

Satie

JOSweetHeart wrote:

P.S. Oh yeah that's right. She is really a male underneath that makeup.

do you also insist that every human is actually, on average, 7.5 pounds "underneath" whatever their current weight is? 'cause that's how they were born.

Revolution909

Age: 29
Location: Galway, Ireland's 4th City

JOSweetHeart wrote:

This is a message about this issue that I just saw at another forum that I go to.

He can take all the hormones he wants and surgically alter himself (ick) but when his corpse is dug up 500 years from now, scientists will classify him as a male. He's got serious mental problems and the money to pretend he's something that he isn't.

Ya can't change DNA

I was like, "Amen!"

God bless you always!!! Smile

Holly

From a purely biological perspective, yes Caitlyn's cells will always contain that Y chromosome and thus could be classified as male. Barring some apocalyptic event where all of our collective digital and print footprint is destroyed, historians will be able to lend our future scientists a hand and clue them into the full picture as to Caitlyn's transition.

I detect a definite transphobic undercurrent to the post you quoted ("ick", "serious mental problems"). Why should Caitlyn and other transgender people settle for living a less than full life presenting as the wrong gender? No psychiatric or psychological intervention could effectively alter their identity, to my knowledge. If there was, people may choose not to seek such treatment, akin to how LGB people come to terms with and embrace their orientation.

At the end of the day, transitioning can make transgender people feel happy and fulfilled, which trumps all other considerations in my opinion. To follow the logic of your quoted post, gay people should just settle and act heterosexually, despite the emotional harm this would cause.

LIVE AND LET LIVE

So needless to say I strongly disagree with your post.
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Last edited by Revolution909 on 06/05/2015 23:44; edited 1 time in total

Satie

Revolution909 wrote:

To follow the logic of your quoted post, gay people should just settle and act heterosexually, despite the emotional harm this would cause.

i mean, not to state the obvious here, but i would actually be shocked if this was not JOS's position, as well.