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Applerill
Autistic Princess <3
Gender: Female
Age: 30
Location: Chicago
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- #1
- Posted: 04/09/2015 19:54
- Post subject: Point of Discussion #69: Rockism and Poptimism
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Rules:
1. Don't be a douchebag.
2. Don't post anything here that you wouldn't repeat in all caps on Tumblr.
3. You're my best friend, Rocky. This obviously isn't official, but I really wanted to talk about this.
The Topic
Most of us are pretty aware of what rockism and Poptimism are (think of the "Disco Sucks" campaign in the late seventies, or how we used to talk about "N Stink" and "real rawk like AC/DC" in the early 2000s),
but there's still a lot of controversy that surrounds the phrases nearly a decade after Carl Wilson published his classic text on the subject, Let's Talk About Love. Are poptimism and rockisms appropriate words to use when talking about music culture? Is rockism often intrinsically linked to racism, sexism and homophobia? Does poptimism eventually lead to anti-intellectualism when taken to an extreme? Is rockism still a major problem for music fans in 2015? Can one be a poptimist and still believe in "high" and "low" art?
Last edited by Applerill on 04/09/2015 20:12; edited 1 time in total
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Norman Bates
Gender: Male
Age: 51
Location: Paris, France
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- #2
- Posted: 04/09/2015 20:02
- Post subject: Re: Point of Discussion #69: Rockism and Poptimism
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| Applerill wrote: |
Most of us are pretty aware of what rockism and Poptimism are |
Not me.
And there ends my contribution.
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland
Moderator
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- #3
- Posted: 04/09/2015 20:05
- Post subject: Re: Point of Discussion #69: Rockism and Poptimism
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| Applerill wrote: | Rules:
3. You're my best friend, Rocky. This obviously isn't official, but I really wanted to talk about this. |
Haha no worries, I'm glad you posted it. I wasn't gonna post one this week cause I really didn't have a good topic.
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revolver94
professional dilettante
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Location: DC suburb
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- #4
- Posted: 04/09/2015 20:33
- Post subject:
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i definitely identify as a poptimist, and call people rockists all of the time when they don't like a pop song that i like (more as a goofy insult than as a legitimate criticism) although there have been times that i have used the word seriously when people have essentially said things like "complicated music is better"
i'd say that, for intents and purposes, rockism is intrinsically linked to all of those isms
i think that, if one becomes anti-intellectual through poptimism, you've transformed into a rockist who deifies pop rather than a poptimist
rockism is a huge problem, although it has many forms other than just acdc people, those who listen to lots of critically acclaimed "indie" and not traditionally "lower" forms of music (i.e. pop) are... well, maybe not just as bad, because at least the problems with the isms isnt there as much, and those types of fans are usually less annoying imo, but it's still a problem
and i dont think one can be a true poptimist and believe in high and low art. just art. well, if one does believe in high and low art, it must be correlated to individual pieces of art and not movements or genres w/in art.
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Jimmy Dread
Old skool like Happy Shopper
Location: 555 Dub Street
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland
Moderator
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- #6
- Posted: 04/09/2015 20:40
- Post subject:
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For reference:
| Wikipedia wrote: | | Rockism is a term referring to perceived biases in popular music criticism. The fundamental tenet of rockism is that some forms of popular music, and some musical artists, are more authentic than others...Rockism, derived from this original usage, can be defined in more than one way, and it would be difficult to recognize one absolute meaning. While there are many vague interpretations of it, rockism is essentially believed to treat rock music as normative. From a rockist view, rock is the standard state of popular music. Despite the name, it is not rockist to like rock music, or to write about it. One may also care about R&B or norteño or bubblegum pop, but discuss them in a rockist way. The idea is built into the way people talk informally about what kinds of popular music interest them. It is also possible to criticize rock music in a rockist way, such as dismissing a rock band because a writer feels as though they have no good albums and only solid singles. |
| Wikipedia wrote: | | At a 2006 pop critic conference, attendees discussed their "guilty pop pleasures, reconsidering musicians (Tiny Tim, Dan Fogelberg, Phil Collins) and genres (blue-eyed soul, Muzak)" which rock critics have long dismissed as lightweight, commercial music. Rosen stated that "this new critical paradigm" is called "popism" — or, more evocatively (and goofily), "poptimism." The "poptimism" approach states: "Pop (and, especially, hip-hop) producers are as important as rock auteurs, Beyoncé is as worthy of serious consideration as Bruce Springsteen, and ascribing shame to pop pleasure is itself a shameful act." |
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Jimmy Dread
Old skool like Happy Shopper
Location: 555 Dub Street
Moderator
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- #7
- Posted: 04/09/2015 20:59
- Post subject:
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| wikipedia wrote: | | For reference... (poptimism believes) "Beyoncé is as worthy of serious consideration as Bruce Springsteen, and ascribing shame to pop pleasure is itself a shameful act." |
So we're talking in the above instance the tortured troubadour versus the slick pop product, and how one is somehow better or equal to the other, depending on which side of the fence you sit? Even though they appeal to different audiences and are marketed in totally different ways?
Seriously, let me make a suggestion. Stop worrying about all of this, let the critics (who one would assume are paid to write about/make up neat little boxes to put things into) get fucking excited about it, and instead go out, get drunk, dance your tits off, get laid and have fun. Because in 10 years you'll wonder where all the time went.
Music is music, FFS. So, in summary:
| Applerill wrote: | | Are poptimism and rockisms appropriate words to use when talking about music culture? Is rockism often intrinsically linked to racism, sexism and homophobia? Does poptimism eventually lead to anti-intellectualism when taken to an extreme? Is rockism still a major problem for music fans in 2015? Can one be a poptimist and still believe in "high" and "low" art? |
Mate, go and have a smoke. One love.
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revolver94
professional dilettante
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Location: DC suburb
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- #8
- Posted: 04/09/2015 21:33
- Post subject:
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idk man, i feel like if we spend so much of our time w/ music it's at least a little important to talk about why we like what we like? to each his/her own, but i really do like talking abt stuff like this 
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My top songs of the 2010s
and
Spotify link
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Goodsir
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- #9
- Posted: 04/09/2015 21:48
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I'm not a rockist, but I'm definitely not a poptimist at all. I just really don't appreciate or pay attention to or care about mainstream music, and a lot of the time I do actually dislike it. 
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craola
crayon master
Location: pdx
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- #10
- Posted: 04/09/2015 22:01
- Post subject:
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| Goodsir wrote: | | I'm not a rockist, but I'm definitely not a poptimist at all. I just really don't appreciate or pay attention to or care about mainstream music, and a lot of the time I do actually dislike it. |
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