[Kiki]

Short post. Good topic though as I think I could find more to say. Others probably want to think on things as well. So more post this way. Good good

One of many criticisms used against albums on this website is 'inoffensive'. It's not one of the harsher words used against albums although it is very rarely used when talking about albums someone likes. So yes, 'inoffensive' is usually a bad quality in some peoples eyes.

However, as most users are not sociopaths, users have a sense of morality and are very likely to find at least something 'offensive' and call it "offensive". It's going to be hard to find anyone here who would like to find explicit racist messages lyrics on an album for example. On the otherhand some Hip-Hop and Metal (two genres which often get singled out) albums will have some listeners who feel offended by lyrical content yet a lot of BEA members will look over them in favor of enjoying the music even if they don't endorse what it is saying. Individuals may also find messages offensive based on their own personal beliefs while everyone else doesn't see the problem.

So what is there to do? Is music something which shouldn't be too inoffensive yet shouldn't be too offensive at the same time? Or am I thinking of two completely different uses of the word 'offensive' and the examples don't really fit together? How do you use the two words, if you use both, when describing music?

Should music be offensive in a small quantity?

[Precedent]

[Graeme2]

When people say an album is inoffensive they probably mean the music is safe and not pushing things rather than being literal.

[Graeme2]

Good topic. Regarding actual offensive lyrics. How far are you willing to let stuff go before you draw the line and say you won't listen to stuff? Thinking mainly about hip hop. One album i'm thinking of is NWA efil4zaggin or niggaz4life. For me, although the music is great, the lyrics are just way over the line in shock value. And just plain crap to boot. Won't listen to it. MC Ren went on to make an album that has grey music to but with some very racist stuff on it so that's out too asfar as I'm concerned.

[Muslim-Bigfoot]

Inoffensive = formulaic, generic =/= politically correct
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"I feel like for the last two years there’s been sort of a sonic evolution happening and I’ve been experimenting more and more."

[Mother Nature's Son]

Inoffensive = essentially boring
Offensively inoffensive = utter waste of time/over-the-top cheesy/disgustingly "formulaic" and unimaginably uncreative = offensive
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"The Beatles, the greatest band known to mankind." - Bismah Mughal

[satiemaniac]

Yeah, I'll re-iterate that in the sense of common usage in discussions of popular music, inoffensive and offensive are not opposites, with the former referring to musically simplistic, masses-oriented, trifleness and the latter referring to lyrical content the way you mention or, I suppose, in some cases, referring to the album within a context. To illustrate this lack of binary, from Theo Parrish's perspective, Disclosure's appropriation of house music culture could be seen as "offensive," but from my perspective, I would add that their music is incredibly inoffensive drivel - both negative, and the two statements can be held without tension.

Anyway, on the subject at hand, I think that offensive music can be separated into a few camps. I think that evaluating any art within historical, social, political contexts is the first step to figuring out what is and isn't offensive for me, at least. Folk musics that deal in casual misogyny and racism, for example, though surely problematic, don't usually get me too hot under the collar, as these attitudes are usually delivered from a place of naivete or accordance with "tradition." Taking these attitudes seriously, though, and avoiding infantilization of these cultures, requires measured critique that seeks to correct the issues with these sentiments in particular. In general, I see folk musics' problematic elements being used as ammo for broader dismissal of the cultures from which they come. Country music is turned into a vehicle of lashing out at poor rural whites and hip hop for poor urban blacks being the most pronounced.

In mainstream popular music, I see offensive lyrics as a much more black and white situation. The public discourse is readily shaped by contributions to the Billboard Hot 100, and offensive lyrics and performances at this point almost seem as if they are cynical manipulations of market forces. These require a broader critique and a look at the systems that place these symbols in our laps constantly. What is doubly interesting within mainstream popular music is that, with the exception of criticisms of major black figures like Nicki Minaj or Kanye West, critique of performance and lyrical attributes actually favors the model I describe above: attacking the idea (and occasionally the person, something I don't really advocate for despite my occasional lazy polemic on here) without attacking the culture (mainly since white culture is seen as a default and polyphonic, while "other" cultures are reduced dramatically).

Something I find interesting in the metal example (and I'll expand it to include racist music in the punk scene) is that a lot of artists who don't double down on their sentiments or grow out of them or simply explain their approach as a joke or as a performance are USUALLY taken at face value by AT LEAST music fans. Holocausto, for example, are a metal band that not a single educated soul will tell you is actually supportive of Nazism, and the list goes on from there. The culture at large is another question, but at least within music circles, there is a disconnect, from my experience, between this treatment of metal and the common treatment of hip hop: that only certain rappers can manage performance in the same way. Generally, this creative license is given to rappers that the person in question likes while being taken from rappers that the person in question dislikes.

Anyway, just musing. Interested in seeing where this conversation goes.

[Kiki]

[SuedeSwede]

[NowhereMan]

To what extent the music I listen to is 'offensive' isn't something I have really considered and after consideration do not see it as important. I tend to really dig songs that tell a story or bring strong imagery to mind.