Point of Discussion: The Artist and the Art - Music

babyBlueSedan
Used to be sort of blind, now can sort of see

Gender: Male

Norman Bates wrote:

c) I don't think sincerity is the foremost value in music

Not disagreeing with you because you said "I think," but for me honesty and sincerity is the thing I like most in music. Most music that seems to have no personal connection with the artist does absolutely nothing for me. There are exceptions (Kool Keith isn't actually an alien gynecologist but I like listening to him pretend to be), but the top 10, 20, or even 30 albums on my chart resonate with me because of how down to earth and honest they sound. Not really related to the topic but I see music as more of a way of expression than just art for art's sake (that doesn't make sense, but whatevs).

Also there's a difference between making fun of Parkinson's (which I don't think Kanye has done, correct me if I'm wrong) and making the observation that people with Parkinson's aren't typically very steady and using it as a metaphor (as Kanye has done).
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MrFrogger
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Age: 28
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babyBlueSedan wrote:

Not disagreeing with you because you said "I think," but for me honesty and sincerity is the thing I like most in music. Most music that seems to have no personal connection with the artist does absolutely nothing for me. There are exceptions (Kool Keith isn't actually an alien gynecologist but I like listening to him pretend to be), but the top 10, 20, or even 30 albums on my chart resonate with me because of how down to earth and honest they sound. Not really related to the topic but I see music as more of a way of expression than just art for art's sake (that doesn't make sense, but whatevs).

Also there's a difference between making fun of Parkinson's (which I don't think Kanye has done, correct me if I'm wrong) and making the observation that people with Parkinson's aren't typically very steady and using it as a metaphor (as Kanye has done).

Just wondering, if sincerity is the foremost positive quality about music for you, how do you judge the sincerity of pieces where it isn't apparent. Instrumental music for example. If you have 2 ambient pieces of music, how do you judge their honesty?

zdwyatt

Gender: Male
Age: 45
Location: Madison WI

I don't know much about artists when I first listen to their work. I do geek out on how bands got their start and rose to acclaim, so I will eventually dig into artists I like. But I'm not likely to change my mind about their music, unless I discover something truly reprehensible.

The one exception to this would be artists that hop genres. I listen to a lot of singer-songwriters, especially those from the US south, and it can be hard for me to listen to hard luck songs if I don't feel the voice is authentic. To take a current example, Butch Walker has an album out that is right in my wheelhouse musically. And he is southern. But he was in a glam metal band (SouthGang) and then a power pop band (Marvelous3). And while this singer-songwriter thing might just be the natural next step as he eases into middle age, I do have a hard time putting his previous work out of my mind.

JMan

I can listen to an artist's music without thinking of their mistakes. However, I refuse to listen to some too often because of the way they can behave. I can't think of any good examples at the moment, but I'd rather listen to music from someone a bit more well behaved so that my influences are from well behaved people. Of course, I am aware of some of my favorite bands' past behavior, such as Led Zeppelin's former habit of hotel trashing. But these guys were in there early twenties at the time. They've clearly grown up, sadly after some of Robert Plant's experiences such as his 18 month wheel chair confinement and the loss of his poor son.

But yeas, I do not think of the behavior when I listen to albums. I prefer to think of the music, and that's what an album is for. It's not for dwelling on the band's personalities.

sp4cetiger

I actually think this is one of those things that's completely individual. We always listen to music within some larger social context and what we know about the artist is a part of that context, we just can't escape it. However, what people know about a given artist, as well as how people react to what they know, varies dramatically from one individual to the next. For me personally, what I know about an artist can sometimes inform how I listen to their music, but I still try to view the art as something distinct from the artist. For others (like satiemaniac), it seems as if the behavior of the artist plays a huge role in how they perceive the music. I don't think there's anything wrong with either approach, it just is what it is.

I don't really see it as a moral question either. In other words, I don't think there's anything morally wrong about enjoying music made by a white supremacist (for example), even if I'm aware of the context in which it was made. However, I would be against financially supporting such an artist, so the music would have to have been obtained non-commercially.

RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

sp4cetiger wrote:

However, I would be against financially supporting such an artist, so the music would have to have been obtained non-commercially.

Interesting. Wouldn't that imply that the only way to acquire the music would, technically, be illegally? Because even streaming services or anything give money to the artists (regardless of how little). If so, it speaks to the value of art, I think. That it's so valuable, such an integral part of some people's lives, that instead of not experiencing it out of a feeling of moral obligation towards not financially supporting the artist, one would break the law in order to experience the art.
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Defago
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RockyRaccoon wrote:

Interesting. Wouldn't that imply that the only way to acquire the music would, technically, be illegally? Because even streaming services or anything give money to the artists (regardless of how little). If so, it speaks to the value of art, I think. That it's so valuable, such an integral part of some people's lives, that instead of not experiencing it out of a feeling of moral obligation towards not financially supporting the artist, one would break the law in order to experience the art.

Some artists provide their music free of charge, I guess? Radiohead did that, and Bandcamp's full of it.

sp4cetiger

RockyRaccoon wrote:

Interesting. Wouldn't that imply that the only way to acquire the music would, technically, be illegally? Because even streaming services or anything give money to the artists (regardless of how little). If so, it speaks to the value of art, I think. That it's so valuable, such an integral part of some people's lives, that instead of not experiencing it out of a feeling of moral obligation towards not financially supporting the artist, one would break the law in order to experience the art.

I'm not sure I follow. I'm not saying there's anything special about art made by white supremacists, only that I would feel wrong purchasing their music. In most cases, I probably wouldn't bother to listen to it at all. If anything, I'd say the fact that I'm not willing to purchase it makes it less valuable.

RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland

Moderator

sp4cetiger wrote:

I'm not sure I follow. I'm not saying there's anything special about art made by white supremacists, only that I would feel wrong purchasing their music. In most cases, I probably wouldn't bother to listen to it at all. If anything, I'd say the fact that I'm not willing to purchase it makes it less valuable.

Yea, I don't think I was very clear, my fault.

Basically what I was saying was you're presented with a situation. An album has come out, and it's by a person who you don't feel like you should financially support (e.g. a white supremacist or someone who hates kittens or something). I got the impression that, instead of just not listening to that music, you'd prefer to illegally acquire it. So your want to experience the music outweighs your desire to follow the law.

And I'm not saying you specifically, as you just said, you'd probably just not listen to it, which was where I misunderstood, I thought you were saying you'd still go out of your way to listen to it, which is what I found interesting.
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sp4cetiger

RockyRaccoon wrote:

So your want to experience the music outweighs your desire to follow the law.

That happens pretty regularly with music from non-white-supremacists. Laughing

Quote:

And I'm not saying you specifically, as you just said, you'd probably just not listen to it, which was where I misunderstood, I thought you were saying you'd still go out of your way to listen to it, which is what I found interesting.

My only point was that I don't see the artist's origins/actions as morally relevant to whether you choose to listen. If listening for free means you have to break the law, then that opens up a new can of worms. The ethics of illegal downloading would be another good topic for PoD, but probably getting too far off topic here.