Post subject: Best Ever Actors and Actresses [LISTS]
Alright guys, the time has come for our next set of lists, for the first time hosted by yours truly. Believe me, this wasn't an easy feat. We only got 15 lists total, but from those 15 lists there were 316 individual male actors on at least one list and 284 of their counterparts. With these being top 50 lists, that's a very large percentage of great picks that won't be represented in the final product. I'm doing tiebreakers based on highest chart position because I can't stand ties. If you do like ties, I'm still including points totals.
While I don't have anything past 50 compiled (as there were just so many ties), I would be open to exposing more of the list in the future. If you're curious of how close a particular person was to making it I'll gladly give you a point total. All 15 lists were posted on the thread. I received no PM lists so if anybody wants to go back and check my math, have at it.
I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to participate. I know it was difficult for some of you but I believe we came up with two more great lists.
Anyway, ladies first...
50. Geraldine Page (96 points)
49. Setsuko Hara (100 points)
48. Marilyn Monroe (101 points)
47. Juliette Binoche (103 points)
46. Scarlett Johansson (107 points)
45. Vivien Leigh (107 points)
44. Elizabeth Taylor (108 points)
43. Madeline Kahn (108 points)
42. Jennifer Lawrence (112 points)
41. Jessica Chastain (114 points)
40. Natalie Portman (116 points)
39. Deborah Kerr (116 points)
38. Olivia de Havilland (117 points)
37. Judi Dench (117 points)
36. Susan Sarandon (117 points)
35. Julie Christie (119 points)
34. Holly Hunter (120 points)
33. Uma Thurman (121 points)
32. Helen Mirren (122 points)
31. Emma Stone (122 points)
50. Denzel Washington (93 points)
49. James Cagney (94 points)
48. Sean Penn (98 points)
47. Harrison Ford (100 points)
46. Bryan Cranston (100 points)
45. Matt Damon (102 points)
44. Tom Cruise (103 points)
43. Jake Gyllenhaal (105 points)
42. Will Smith (106 points)
41. Robert Mitchum (108 points)
40. Kevin Spacey (109 points)
39. Ralph Fiennes (110 points)
38. Anthony Hopkins (112 points)
37. Peter O'Toole (113 points)
36. Michael Caine (119 points)
35. Tom Hardy (120 points)
34. Klaus Kinski (120 points)
33. Morgan Freeman (125 points)
32. Christoph Waltz (134 points)
31. Max von Sydow (135 points)
20. Jack Lemmon (182 points)
19. Peter Sellers (189 points)
18. Toshiro Mifune (195 points)
17. Christian Bale (197 points)
16. Robin Williams (203 points)
15. Al Pacino (221 points)
14. Paul Newman (227 points)
13. Orson Welles (230 points)
12. Humphrey Bogart (230 points)
11. Cary Grant (233 points)
10. Philip Seymour Hoffman (246 points)
9. Leonardo DiCaprio (271 points)
8. Tom Hanks (271 points)
7. Robert De Niro (279 points)
6. Charlie Chaplin (313 points)
5. Gary Oldman (358 points)
4. Jack Nicholson (375 points)
3. Daniel Day-Lewis (408 points)
2. Marlon Brando (421 points)
1. James Stewart (449 points)
Let's start with some stats...
James Stewart was #1 on a whopping four lists. In total Stewart made 11 of the 15 lists, trailing behind Marlon Brando and Jack Nicholson with 12 appearances each. Philip Seymour Hoffman is the only other actor besides Stewart who was #1 on more than one list (3 total), although they were all short lists. Had those users maxed out on their limit he could have landed a few spots higher.
On the lower end of things, four actors made it onto the list while managing to make only three user lists: Klaus Kinski, Peter O'Toole, Anthony Hopkins and Matt Damon.
Curious who was #51? Johnny Depp, who was just 2 points away from 50th place.
Dirk Bogarde and Ed Harris are the only male actors to have made #1 on someone's list but not make the final chart.
Meryl Streep, Ellen Burstyn and Barbara Stanwyck were all ranked #1 by two different users, while Streep alone made the most lists at 12 total.
On the flip side #50 Geraldine Page was only on two (oddly) consecutive lists, both of which she placed #3.
In fact, it was Page's higher ranking that won the tiebreaker between her and #51, Reese Witherspoon, whose highest charting position was #14.
Jeanne Moreau and Madhabi Mukherjee are the unfortunate favorites of someone who failed to make the list. Moreau was actually close with 92 points.
Notice how 18 points separates first from third, 8 points between fourth and sixth, and 5 points from seventh to ninth. This was a close one, folks..
Now for some personal thoughts
I'm super excited for Frances McDormand, whom I would imagine was an unexpected name to surpass her contemporaries by a good margin and wind up right behind two of the undisputed greats of all time. In fact, had SquishyPuffDave listed more than just eight women, she could have won the whole damn thing.
Also thought it was cool that Mia Farrow went that high. Didn't realize she was that popular. I don't remember if she even made my list but she's the star of my favorite horror film of all time so I'll take that as a consolation prize for Christopher Lee missing the cut by seven points.
More surprises include loads of love for Lauren Bacall, the Persona girls getting almost all the Bergman love in lieu of the more consistent Harriett Andersson, and Setsuko Hara squeaking her way in.
As for the most shocking omission, I feel like everybody was having such a hard time picking their favorite Frank Capra starlet (seriously, Donna Reed, Jean Arthur and Claudette Colbert were so close they were practically the human centipede with 88, 86 and 82) when clearly it was Colbert who was best both with Capra and without him. I do wish she'd have been here.
Regarding the men, that was a wild ride. Stewart, Brando and Day-Lewis all swapped the lead around throughout this thing. Nicholson and Chaplin were battling it out for fourth before Oldman worked his way up midway through. All of them are quite deserving of their placement.
Love the collection of British and international talent here. We also had a very respectable collection of comedic actors getting the recognition they deserve.
I am curious to know what Christoph Waltz films I need to watch besides the Tarantino ones or if everybody just put him on their lists because of those. I love the guy but he wasn't on my radar for this because he just hasn't compelled me in anything else. Ditto for Bryan Cranston, although I think it was made clear that some of you couldn't help but lump film and television actors and performances into the same category so I guess it makes sense. But really the biggest shocker of all is Will Smith.
Most surprising omission for the men is a toss-up. As I mentioned Johnny Depp was #51. I would have put money on him making the list. Same for Jeff Bridges (64 points) and Gene Hackman (52).
Anyway, that's our favorite actors and actresses. What do you think? Thanks again to everyone who took part. I relinquish the torch for now and look forward to what we come up with next.
Fantastic top 10 for the men. I thought it appeared Jimmy Stewart would win, and it's well deserved. Also pleasantly surprised to see Tom Hardy as high as he is.
The actresses list is solid as well. And I definitely agree with your assessment of actresses in Capra films. Though Jean Arthur I believe was much higher on my list, all three of them were fantastic.
Also on Bryan Cranston, there are a ton of film roles he's great in, in addition to Breaking Bad, but his performance in Linklater's Last Flag Flying, which came out a few months ago, has been incredibly overlooked. He's sublime in it.
Fantastic top 10 for the men. I thought it appeared Jimmy Stewart would win, and it's well deserved. Also pleasantly surprised to see Tom Hardy as high as he is.
The actresses list is solid as well. And I definitely agree with your assessment of actresses in Capra films. Though Jean Arthur I believe was much higher on my list, all three of them were fantastic.
Also on Bryan Cranston, there are a ton of film roles he's great in, in addition to Breaking Bad, but his performance in Linklater's Last Flag Flying, which came out a few months ago, has been incredibly overlooked. He's sublime in it.
I haven't seen Last Flag Flying yet. Cranston is a hell of an actor; I just don't think his film work as a whole puts him in this kind of elite class. Yet. But then again, it's a favorites list. Not a best list. I made that perfectly clear. So I can't actually disagree with his placement, although I disagree with his placement.
I was also kind of surprised with how well Hardy did, even though I ranked him myself. He's definitely only been relatively known for a few years but he's been in a lot of good movies and knocked it out of the park in a handful of roles. I wonder though if he's just a flavor of the month. Only time will tell if he's the next Russell Crowe or the next Leonardo DiCaprio (for example, 15 years ago Crowe was near the end of his peak in popularity but was still respected enough to have been high on a list like this and now he's nowhere to be found; DiCaprio was just starting to come into his own and might have scored a point or two for his work with Spielberg and Scorsese in '02 along with the scattered Titanic and Gilbert Grape fans but now look at him tied in the top 10 with Tom Hanks, the man he immediately succeeded as "most likely to earn $100 million at the box office every single time" in a weird, blink and you'll miss it passing of the torch moment in Catch Me If You Can).
Post subject: Re: Best Ever Actors and Actresses [LISTS]
Tom Hardy, but no Clark Gable...smh
Overall, these are great lists. But yeah, Tom Hardy doesn't belong. I'm not saying he isn't a good actor, but his age, range, and filmography really doesn't qualify. He's in his early '40s, about the same age as DiCaprio and Bale, but his body of work doesn't compare to them. And while he's great at playing badass-type roles (Bronson, Mad Max, TTSS, Revenant, Warrior, RocknRolla, Dark Knight Rises) when has he ever played something else? From what I've seen, he doesn't have much acting range (not a bad thing because he plays to his strengths). And I think acting range is crucial for being considered greatest of all time.
Then again, as badseed has said time after time, this wasn't about 'greatest.' It was about 'favorites.' And sure, I understand why Hardy is a fan favorite. But I wish we could've had Clark Gable, Gene Hackman, or Russell Crowe instead.
Other than that, the men's list is pretty awesome. Bryan Cranston...I considered him for my list but ultimately agreed with badseed his film work didn't put him in this class. It's pretty clear to me he was in Walter White Mode during the filming of Argo. However, he has shown broader range through his performances in Malcolm in the Middle, Drive, and Trumbo. Haven't seen Last Flag Flying yet, but I will at some point (we have a 2017 list coming up).
The women's list is amazing. Perfect mix of classic and contemporary. The only one I disagree with is Julie Delpy (sorry, but outside of two characters she's played, what else has she done?).
Both of my #1s, Lemmon and Stanwyck, appeared at #20 on these lists. Interesting.
Post subject: Re: Best Ever Actors and Actresses [LISTS]
StreetSpirit wrote:
I spit soda all over the place when I saw this.
But yeah, on an objective scale, I find Waltz, Hardy, Cranston and Smith to be the only real outliers (as in realistically they don't even belong in a top 100, although like I said I voted for Hardy so it is what it is). Swap them with any combination of C. Gable, J. Bridges, L. Olivier, C. Eastwood, G. Hackman, R. Duvall, J. Depp or C. Lee and you might think some real scholars came up with this list.
Cruise and Smith in there is not surprising. Based off chops or traditional concepts of acting, perhaps they are relatively lacking. But they are superstars and the peeps on this site skew young and have grown up with those 2 being in some of the biggest movies and being some of the most charismatic characters. At least that's how I see it.
I wasn't familiar enough with the work of Olivier so I didn't include him. But still I'm surprised he missed the cut. There are very very few actors as legendary as him.
Similarly surprised by the lack of James Dean. But I understand. He's a stud, but only 3 films works against him.
Personally, I am very happy by the #1 male actor as he was my #1 too. On the opposite end of the spectrum, my number 1 actress (Madhabi Mukherjee) missed the cut with no other votes cast her way. I suppose considering my love of all things Satyajit Ray, the stars and people in his films are always foremost in my mind. Still, I wished she got at least one other vote. I adore her.
Lemmon, Mifune, Newman, Bogart, Hanks, Chaplin and Stewart being where they are made me happy. The absence of Takashi Shimura is a bit of a bummer for me.
As for the actresses, also like this list. I have never been in awe of Streep as so many others are. I still need to see some of her iconic performances and maybe that will sway me. She's great from what I have seen, but I don't see her as #1. I love how the 11-20 range has a trio of some of those 70s hollywood greats (Keaton, Farrow, Dunaway,). And Spacek at #8 leading the way is 1. surprising ( i thought it would be Diane Keaton) and 2. awesome cuz she's amazing.
Seeing Monroe, Chastain, Portman, Kerr, Garland, Garbo, Keaton, McDormand, where they are made me happy. And ESPECIALLY loved the love and the rank of Sissy Spacek, Mia Farrow, and Shirley MacLaine... those 3 are just such mesmerizing talkents which make me empathize for and feel almost any film they are in.
Bette Davis below Winslett super surprising to me. I thought she's be 2 or 3 along with K. Hepburn and Streep.
Geena Davis at 30 surprises me. I just never think of her when I think of the great film actresses of all time. I love her in A League of Their Own. lol.
----
anyway, in closing this was a great, fun, lsit and project and I appreciate it. _________________ -Ryan
Cruise and Smith in there is not surprising. Based off chops or traditional concepts of acting, perhaps they are relatively lacking. But they are superstars and the peeps on this site skew young and have grown up with those 2 being in some of the biggest movies and being some of the most charismatic characters. At least that's how I see it.
I wasn't familiar enough with the work of Olivier so I didn't include him. But still I'm surprised he missed the cut. There are very very few actors as legendary as him.
Similarly surprised by the lack of James Dean. But I understand. He's a stud, but only 3 films works against him.
Personally, I am very happy by the #1 male actor as he was my #1 too. On the opposite end of the spectrum, my number 1 actress (Madhabi Mukherjee) missed the cut with no other votes cast her way. I suppose considering my love of all things Satyajit Ray, the stars and people in his films are always foremost in my mind. Still, I wished she got at least one other vote. I adore her.
Lemmon, Mifune, Newman, Bogart, Hanks, Chaplin and Stewart being where they are made me happy. The absence of Takashi Shimura is a bit of a bummer for me.
As for the actresses, also like this list. I have never been in awe of Streep as so many others are. I still need to see some of her iconic performances and maybe that will sway me. She's great from what I have seen, but I don't see her as #1. I love how the 11-20 range has a trio of some of those 70s hollywood greats (Keaton, Farrow, Dunaway,). And Spacek at #8 leading the way is 1. surprising ( i thought it would be Diane Keaton) and 2. awesome cuz she's amazing.
Seeing Monroe, Chastain, Portman, Kerr, Garland, Garbo, Keaton, McDormand, where they are made me happy. And ESPECIALLY loved the love and the rank of Sissy Spacek, Mia Farrow, and Shirley MacLaine... those 3 are just such mesmerizing talkents which make me empathize for and feel almost any film they are in.
Bette Davis below Winslett super surprising to me. I thought she's be 2 or 3 along with K. Hepburn and Streep.
Geena Davis at 30 surprises me. I just never think of her when I think of the great film actresses of all time. I love her in A League of Their Own. lol.
----
anyway, in closing this was a great, fun, lsit and project and I appreciate it.
I didn't see anyone complaining about Cruise, although with how artsy we are and how little Cruise was represented in our other lists compared to say a Clint Eastwood, it's kinda surprising. A pleasant surprise nonetheless. I feel like Cruise is in the same boat as a Sean Penn - an extremely talented actor who gets a lot of hate because of their personal life or the way they carry themselves in public. I don't care what you say about Will Smith. That was an upset. So what if he's been in some popular movies from our generation? So was Samuel L. Jackson.
Olivier was criminally underrepresented (61 points from two lists) but I would wager he's probably underseen in these parts. James Dean made two lists, scoring 45 points total. Shimura also made two lists, scoring quite high on them for an 80 point total.
Post subject: Re: Best Ever Actors and Actresses [LISTS]
badseed wrote:
I spit soda all over the place when I saw this.
Humour was my intent, but making a mess of projectile soda wasn't, lol.
badseed wrote:
But yeah, on an objective scale, I find Waltz, Hardy, Cranston and Smith to be the only real outliers (as in realistically they don't even belong in a top 100, although like I said I voted for Hardy so it is what it is). Swap them with any combination of C. Gable, J. Bridges, L. Olivier, C. Eastwood, G. Hackman, R. Duvall, J. Depp or C. Lee and you might think some real scholars came up with this list.
Now that you mention it, Christoph Waltz doesn't belong either. Maybe it was fascination of villains and QT characters? I don't know. I have nothing against Cranston and Smith making the list. However I didn't realize Robert Duvall missed out. That's too bad because he's great. Wait, we're not scholars?
I don't care that Tom Cruise is a weirdo in his personal life. He's a terrific actor who deserves to be on here. Same with Kevin Spacey. Now everyone knows he's a criminal, but that didn't prevent him from getting onto this list. However, I wonder if the scandal cost him some points.
Here's one thing I noticed looking over this list again. It's mostly lead actors, not supporting. Yeah most of these men have played both types of roles, but nearly everyone on here leads more often than supports. McKellen, Waltz, and Sydow are a few exceptions. I wonder if this was an unconscious factor in users decision-making. Is this why Robert Duvall didn't make the list? Robert Duvall is fantastic, one of my all-time favorite actors and it's a little disappointing that he didn't make it. However, he played supporting characters in most of his films (many of which are considered among the finest ever made...both Godfathers, To Kill a Mockingbird, MASH, Network, Apocalypse Now, etc). I guess it's easy to overlook him when he's overshadowed in these films by other actors. Nevertheless, Duvall was always there giving smaller, but no less terrific performances.
Duvall was one of many men who made their mark with supporting roles but didn't get on this list. Joe Pantoliano, Edward G. Robinson, John Goodman, Claude Rains, Steve Buscemi, Christopher Walken, and Paul Giamatti aren't on here either. badseed, did these men get many votes?
Ok, I know I'm ranting now. But the point is don't overlook supporting actors. They're equally important.
Post subject: Re: Best Ever Actors and Actresses [LISTS]
StreetSpirit wrote:
Here's one thing I noticed looking over this list again. It's mostly lead actors, not supporting. Yeah most of these men have played both types of roles, but nearly everyone on here leads more often than supports. McKellen, Waltz, and Sydow are a few exceptions. I wonder if this was an unconscious factor in users decision-making. Is this why Robert Duvall didn't make the list? Robert Duvall is fantastic, one of my all-time favorite actors and it's a little disappointing that he didn't make it. However, he played supporting characters in most of his films (many of which are considered among the finest ever made...both Godfathers, To Kill a Mockingbird, MASH, Network, Apocalypse Now, etc). I guess it's easy to overlook him when he's overshadowed in these films by other actors. Nevertheless, Duvall was always there giving smaller, but no less terrific performances.
Duvall was one of many men who made their mark with supporting roles but didn't get on this list. Joe Pantoliano, Edward G. Robinson, John Goodman, Claude Rains, Steve Buscemi, Christopher Walken, and Paul Giamatti aren't on here either. badseed, did these men get many votes?
Ok, I know I'm ranting now. But the point is don't overlook supporting actors. They're equally important.
Rant over
Subjectivity often comes into stuff like these polls/lists, so I don't mind that you have an issue with Tom Hardy being on this list (and I am also somewhat surprised Clark Gable didn't make the cut). But I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Hardy often plays key supporting roles: Inception, Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, The Revenant just to name a few.
I also included Claude Rains in my list, and he should have made it. I didn't think Edward Everett Horton would make the cut, but he's one of the finest career supporting actors who is regularly overlooked in the 21st century.
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