Best Songwriters 5L Goes West

[BozoTyrannus]

Wow. In what was likely the most brutal of matches, two contenders were absolutely crushed, and two scored massive victories

Van Morrison has been eliminated with a whopping ZERO votes on his behalf, while Phil Elverum just barely was involved with a measly one vote

Which means...

The final matchup...

Is......

5a: Tom Waits vs. André 3000

As for our obligatory runner-up match, see the poll
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I wanna take Sean Penn
And take Sean Bean
Put 'em in a blender
And make Sean Pean

[NewsFromHome]

Carrots gonna Ralph Nader this poll, I can feel it

[LedZep]

Yeah it's Tom.
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Finally updated the overall chart

2020s
90s

[Skinny]

Difficult decision. Leaning towards Andre 3000, largely because I revisit his stuff far more than Waits', but I'm not sure I equate 'great rapping' - even when married to strong concepts and done in a way that's as focused as Andre often is - with 'great songwriting', not in some sort of reductive way, but in the sense that rapping doesn't inherently feel like it needs to be in service of a "song", per se, to be successful, even when a great song is often the end product of great rapping, whereas writing lyrics in the pop/rock sense kinda always feels like it has to be to the song's benefit, if that makes even the slightest bit of sense.
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[babyBlueSedan]

I vote for Waits.

And I agree with Skinny that the non-lyrical aspect songwriting doesn't feel as important in hip hop. Even on a space rap odyssey like "Spottieottiedopalicious" Andre's rapping (while great) doesn't really seem to be to the service of that track's format, outside of the drugged out laziness of it that would fit just as well in a shorter, more traditional song. On the flip side Waits is excellent at matching his poignant and deranged lyrics to songs with appropriate structures and moods.
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And it's hard to be a human being. And it's harder as anything else.

[Hayden]

Tom Waits.
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[NewsFromHome]

I used to think Waits' lyrics stood up on their own outside of the music better than almost anyone. Lately, I'm more uncertain about that. His words most of the time don't really hold a candle to his influences on the page and separated from the context of the atmosphere he creates I'm left cold. I think Scott Walker is the only person now that really holds himself distinctly as a true poet as well as a musician but I'm open to more suggestions. Totally agree with Skinny. Could really go either way at the end of the day. I revisit both of these artists frequently. Gonna vote Andre 3000 to keep things interesting and close.

[RoundTheBend]

[RoundTheBend]

Tom Waits for me.

I voted against my nom in the last round for Andre cuz... wow, easily a top talent and clearly deserves to be here for multiple reasons. To counter Skinny, I actually love Andre's songwriting, and not just rapping... I feel he's one of the few that does both, which is why I'm in awe of his work. His songwriting makes Kanye feel like an amateur sometimes (all the time?).

But Tom Wait's career is easily way more interesting to me than Andre's with all the different albums and styles. He's got this beat poet vibe that's smooth and dark, and then he's insane, which I can also appreciate.

Plus he develops non-lethal weapons in Mystery Men for cake icing.

His songwriting, the craft of writing music and lyrics that flow with the music as opposed to over it is the deciding factor for me.

[baystateoftheart]

André 3000. Sure, rapping doesn't need to be in service of a song, but in the case of three stacks it usually is, and masterfully. Also lyrics are the centerpiece of this particular tournament, and he outpaces Waits on that front.
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