2025 Academy Awards - Movies & TV - Forums : Best Ever Albums

CA Dreamin

Gender: Male

Location: LA

My Emilia Perez post (I mean, it has been the most talked-about film this season, so let's air it out)

I caught this film before all the controversy started and I wasn't a fan at the time. For one, I generally don't like musicals, and boy were these songs stupid. My brain tuned out during some of the cringey musical segments. By the last third, I was half-paying attention. I admired Saldana's performance and some technical elements, but my main issue with the film was its story. The film was about a Mexican cartel kingpin, who transitioned to a woman to disappear from the underworld and begin a new life under the name Emilia Perez. I found that premise interesting, because I perceived it as a means of escaping justice and/or death from cartel rivals. It's messed up, but it sort of made sense. However, the script didn't imply that at all from what I remember, instead leaned into the trans identity narrative. From there, the story took on a redemptive arc as Emilia returned to Mexico to be with her children and set up a nonprofit for cartel victims. This might have worked for me if the film had explored Emilia's past. We take it for granted that she was accountable for numerous awful crimes, but the film never showed any of it. It's casually mentioned at most. And it never felt like it factored into the writing and central performance, which is very strange, as there are good possibilities there. It came off as totally unbalanced by primarily showing Emilia as a loving parent and portraying her as a hero, while downplaying her past crimes. That was my main gripe, in addition to hating the songs, but I gave it some slack with a 5/10 rating.

I've since lowered my rating to 3/10 after all the controversy came with awards recognition, Gascon's social media activity, and other backlash for its representations. It's been quite a campaign, as it took home several Golden Globes 7 weeks ago, and was looking like an Oscar frontrunner with 13 nominations. Look how quickly those hopes went down the drain. Now it might not win anything because the Academy is distancing itself from such a problematic film, as the trans community and Mexico have been harshly critical, while Gascon had to delete her Twitter account. But we mustn't forget how well EP did in its festival run, and that several critics and directors praised the film long before general audiences saw it and all the backlash started. Perhaps there has been a large-scale re-evaluation. We'll see when the Oscars come around in two weeks.

In sum, and to quote a friend, 'EP feels like a movie made by a French dude about Mexico.'

Who else has seen it, and willing to share a few thoughts?

BozoTyrannus

Gender: Male

Age: 33

CA Dreamin wrote:

Who else has seen it, and willing to share a few thoughts?

I have not seen it (and won't) but I have numerous friends in Mexico who saw it and all told me the same things. (1) It's the most offensive portrayal of Mexico they have ever seen (and this is from people who weren't fazed by the usual stuff like in Breaking Bad), and also that (2) the Spanish from everyone except Saldana and Paz is so bad that they had turn on the English subtitles to be able to follow along.

These friends are all cis so they have no original thoughts on the trans aspect, only the cultural and linguistic.
_________________
I wanna take Sean Penn
And take Sean Bean
Put 'em in a blender
And make Sean Pean

BozoTyrannus

Gender: Male

Age: 33

As for general thoughts:

Anora - Sean Baker is not my personal cup of tea, but I'm glad to see him getting mainstream recognition, since he has such a distinct style. Always glad to see something more off kilter getting appreciated instead of the normal rehashed stuff

The Brutalist - a breath of fresh air. Honestly just the inclusion of an intermission is a welcome return from classic cinema. If we can normalize getting extra long movies that take their time but still give us a break (instead of this current trend of splitting a story into two or more movies) I for one will be delighted. Also all the nominated cast members absolutely deserved it.

A Complete Unknown - eh. I have no opinion. It's fine. Though what did James Mangold do that deserved a Best Director nod? It was a very generic approach and a perfectly average quality job.

Conclave - terrible marketing. Absolutely terrible. It's marketed to be a nail biting conspiracy thriller but (spoilers) there is no actual conspiracy. You could call it a political or psychological thriller, sure, but that's it. Aside from the misleading marketing, I did like this quite a lot, and I'm glad to see it get a Best Picture nomination, though it definitely does not deserve to win.

Dune: Part Two - I'm shocked this only got half as many noms as Part One, since this feels obviously the better one. I do understand not getting an Original Score nom (as it didn't have enough, you know, original music to qualify) but beyond that it surpassed Part One in every single way.

Emilia Perez - there's a special place in hell for people who voted for this movie. Watch Johanne Sacrebleu instead

I'm Still Here - local cinema starts showing it this Friday, so no thoughts yet

Nickel Boys - favorite of the Best Picture nominations. It managed to take the kinda-annoying POV shot and turn it into an effective storytelling tool that unrolls layers of subtext that I don't think you could have without the POV. Plus during the childhood montage I got strong Marcel Proust vibes which is a major plus. More people need to see this one. THAT MEANS YOU

The Substance - I adore how since 2015's Mad Max dominance we've been getting weirder and weirder movies slipping into the Best Picture race. This is our pinnacle so far. Second favorite BP nominee of the year and boy is it close.

Wicked - not even gonna bother watching it until Part Two comes out and even then I might not bother

OTHER FIELDS:
Why are Sebastian Stan and Jeremy Strong in the acting categories? Easily the least memorable performances

I love Isabella Rossellini but she had nothing to do in Conclave

Sing Sing missing out on BP is disappointing but getting into Best Actor and Screenplay brings me great joy

This might be the strongest year for Animated Film I've ever seen. Honestly any of these could win and I'd be fine with it, though I'm chiefly hoping for Flow, which is probably my favorite movie of the year

International is unusually strong too, with the exception of the film which shall not be named

What a weak lineup of Best Original Song though. I'm actually grateful they're skipping live performances of them this year

Best Makeup is 3/5ths incredible. The work in A Different Man, Nosferatu, and The Substance are jaw dropping. Cannot imagine how or why the other two are in there

And at the risk of alienating everyone, I haven't liked a single thing Luca Guadagnino has ever done, so the lack of Challengers is a plus for me. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross are fine but some of the most overly hyped scorers I've ever encountered. I genuinely thought Mank was using public domain music or open license music, I cannot express my shock that that generic dreck was actually carefully compsed by professionals. And my thoughts towards Challengers is ..... well, it's slightly better I guess. Still sounds like something I would've downloaded for free in high school to back a bad video project.
_________________
I wanna take Sean Penn
And take Sean Bean
Put 'em in a blender
And make Sean Pean

Hayden

Location: Vietnam

BozoTyrannus wrote:

I have not seen it (and won't) but I have numerous friends in Mexico who saw it and all told me the same things. (1) It's the most offensive portrayal of Mexico they have ever seen (and this is from people who weren't fazed by the usual stuff like in Breaking Bad), and also that (2) the Spanish from everyone except Saldana and Paz is so bad that they had turn on the English subtitles to be able to follow along.

"Hasta me duele la pinche vulva mada mas de acordarme de ti"

Keeping mind I'm not Mexican, but I have spent quite a bit of time in Mexico City and Guanajuato, and apart from one very CDMX easter egg early on that I appreciated (and gave me hope), I... well, honestly, I was also offended. I thought the portrayal of Mexico and Mexican culture was ridiculously out of touch, insulting, and just... very silly cultural appropriation. As someone who's also spent time in Thailand, I thought the stereotypically damaging portrayal there was also offensive and parody-esque. As someone who enjoys the occasional musical, I also found it... umm... insulting to musicals. The songs are godawful.

But re: Mexico, it more-or-less makes a caricature out of legitimately serious issues, misses the tone completely, and is miscast. Absolutely bizarre that between Saldana, Gomez and Gascon they couldn't pass off reasonable Spanish dialogue (to which, Audiard didn't seem to notice).

It reminds me a lot of Taco Bell. It's a cartoon. A joke. Ignorant to the reality of the situation. And that's not even getting into the plot arcs.

And this is coming from someone who went into the film really looking forward to it.

Hayden

Location: Vietnam

BozoTyrannus wrote:

Wicked - not even gonna bother watching it until Part Two comes out and even then I might not bother

Likewise. I'm just not super interested in it, and it's a time commitment. Etc.

I also agree with the animated film category. Absolutely stacked. Literally 5 of the best films of the year.

And this is possibly the worst line-up for original song since... damn... 2006? 2004? I mean, the fact one of these songs will win an Oscar is ridiculous. (Hurts a little more when you see Compress/Repress on the longlist... Sick in the Head too). Before the nominees were announced I figured Kiss The Sky would be the frontrunner... Anxious

AgainstMeAgainstYou

Gender: Male

Age: 30

Location: Ajax, ON

Predictions.

Picture: Anora (want Dune: Part Two)
Director: Corbet
Orig. Screenplay: Anora
Adapted Screenplay: Conclave (want Nickel Boys)
Actor: Brody
Actress: Madison
Supp. Actor: Culkin (want Pearce)
Supp. Actress: Saldana (wtf?; want Jones)
Animated Feature: The Wild Robot
Int. Feature: Emilia Pérez (wtf?; want I'm Still Here)
Documentary: No Other Land
Score: The Brutalist
Song: El Mal (want Like a Bird)
Sound: Dune: Part Two
VFX: Dune: Part Two
Prod. Design: Wicked (want The Brutalist)
Cinematography: The Brutalist
Makeup/Hair: The Substance (want A Different Man)
Costumes: Wicked
Editing: Anora

Anora - 4
The Brutalist - 4
Emilia Pérez - 3 (wtf?)
Dune: Part Two - 2 (wtf?)
Wicked - 2
Conclave - 1
No Other Land - 1
A Real Pain - 1
The Substance - 1
The Wild Robot - 1

No predictions for shorts. I never manage to get around to them.

EyeKanFly

Head Bear Master/Galactic Emperor

Age: 34

Location: Gotham

Hayden wrote:

Absolutely bizarre that between Saldana, Gomez and Gascon they couldn't pass off reasonable Spanish dialogue (to which, Audiard didn't seem to notice).

re: Saldaña, for what it's worth, her accent is basically Dominican Spanish, and I think her character mentions she wasn't born in Mexico, so her accent is like partway between Dominican and Mexican and I think that's fair for the film. Gascón's Spain-Spanish accent isn't super convincing as Mexican unfortunately. Selena Gomez's accent is atrocious, worse than Keanu Reeves' British which I've used as the barometer for bad accents.

I watched Emilia Pérez prior to knowing anything about it. It was before Oscar noms were out and before the Golden Globes (although noms may have been out for that, I don't tend to follow). My partner put it on saying she read it was good, and I had to stop watching after 30 minutes because it was so bad. My partner said the ending was decent and wanted to me to finish it so we could discuss it together. I guess I'm glad I watched it so I can participate in all the criticism, but holy hell it was bad.

A brief description of the plot as "gang leader has sex reassignment to go underground" sounds like a take on Some Like It Hot, like it could be completely silly and even fun. Or at least so-bad-it's-good. This is not that.

Even like... the lighting and cinematography are bad. It's almost like Audiard really wanted to apply a sepia filter on the whole thing but someone convinced him not to and he switched it to a weird harsh industrial blue-green.

And of course lots has been said about the dangerous stereotyping of Mexico, Mexicans, and trans folkx, but Hayden you bring up a good point about also the Thai stereotyping which I haven't seen much other discourse about. I think that "penis to vagina or vagina to penis" musical number in Thailand was the point where I turned it off the first watch, that scene in particular is so bad it makes me mad.

re: Wicked, I went into it a. not realizing it was "part one", b. not having seen the musical, and c. not realizing it was 3 hours until we were already at the theater. Despite all that, I actually really liked it. The songs and choreography were really fun in a way that I can't imagine Broadway was able to realize, and I was pleasantly surprised by the use of practical special effects wherever possible rather than it being a Marvel-esque CGI slopfest (which tbh I was expecting).
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BozoTyrannus

Gender: Male

Age: 33

AgainstMeAgainstYou wrote:

Predictions.

Picture: Anora (want Dune: Part Two)
Director: Corbet
Orig. Screenplay: Anora
Adapted Screenplay: Conclave (want Nickel Boys)
Actor: Brody
Actress: Madison
Supp. Actor: Culkin (want Pearce)
Supp. Actress: Saldana (wtf?; want Jones)
Animated Feature: The Wild Robot
Int. Feature: Emilia Pérez (wtf?; want I'm Still Here)
Documentary: No Other Land
Score: The Brutalist
Song: El Mal (want Like a Bird)
Sound: Dune: Part Two
VFX: Dune: Part Two
Prod. Design: Wicked (want The Brutalist)
Cinematography: The Brutalist
Makeup/Hair: The Substance (want A Different Man)
Costumes: Wicked
Editing: Anora

Predictions.

Picture: Anora (want Nickel Boys or The Substance)
Director: Corbet
Orig. Screenplay: Anora (want The Substance)
Adapted Screenplay: Conclave (want Nickel Boys)
Actor: Brody
Actress: Moore
Supp. Actor: Culkin
Supp. Actress: Saldana (wtf?; want Jones)
Animated Feature: The Wild Robot (want Flow)
Int. Feature: Emilia Pérez (wtf?; want I'm Still Here)
Documentary: No Other Land
Score: The Brutalist
Song: El Mal (want Like a Bird)
Sound: Dune: Part Two
VFX: Dune: Part Two
Prod. Design: Wicked
Cinematography: The Brutalist
Makeup/Hair: The Substance
Costumes: Wicked
Editing: The Brutalist
Animated Short: Wander to Wonder
Documentary Short: The Only Girl in the Orchestra
Live Action Short: The Man Who Could Not Remain Silent
_________________
I wanna take Sean Penn
And take Sean Bean
Put 'em in a blender
And make Sean Pean

CA Dreamin

Gender: Male

Location: LA

EyeKanFly wrote:

A brief description of the plot as "gang leader has sex reassignment to go underground" sounds like a take on Some Like It Hot, like it could be completely silly and even fun. Or at least so-bad-it's-good. This is not that.

Someone I talked to at work about Emilia Perez said something very similar. He didn't mention Some Like it Hot, but he said the plot sounds like a goofy comedy from 30-40 years ago, a time when portrayals of transgenders on screen was very limited, and could be played for laughs without causing a stir. But it's the 2020s now, and we're supposed to be more woke. I don't find Emilia Perez is as woke as it wants to be. Sure, it depicts a trans-woman as a hero, but as I mentioned above, I didn't find her actions heroic. I found them partially atonable, at most, that didn't outweigh her past sins. Not that they need to in order for a good movie, if other elements fall into place. But they didn't. There was little exploration into her past, her guilt was hardly felt in Gascon's performance. The overall tone was sugarcoated with stupid songs, and the hero's parade at the end was ironic and unearned. The filmmakers wanted Emilia Perez to be progress for trans representation. And I find interesting how directors and critics praised it for doing so during its festival phase, before general audiences saw it and rejected it. I wonder what those directors and critics are thinking now. Were they afraid to criticize the movie and be labeled as transphobic?

Anyway, Emilia Perez is wrongheaded, but it succeeded in getting a lot of awards buzz. It advances a social cause (and fails at it). It comes from a French director with a notable track record. It's stylish. It's a musical...it has awards bait written all over it. And it was working up through the Golden Globes. But that's why Awards Season is a marathon. Emilia Perez had time to sink before the Oscars, and it definitely has. 13 nominations, how many will it win?

Hayden

Location: Vietnam

CA Dreamin wrote:

13 nominations, how many will it win?

1 or 2. It'll land support actress, and I'm going to give it 80%+ chance of best original song. Unfortunately.

Some of Saldana's fellow nominees are worthy too, course, but I think Margaret Qualley would have made a better choice than perhaps anyone else. Usha Seamkhum in How to Make Millions Before Grandma Dies was also excellent, but most likely not campaigned even a smidgen.

Original song is just a mess. Really sad one of those nominees is going to win Laughing

It'll be shut out of everything else though. My predictions—

Best Picture: Anora (keep mind, this is a RACE— way tighter than any year in recent memory— I think 4-5 films have a legit chance)
Best Director: Corbet
Actress: Moore
Actor: Brody (but don't be overly surprised if Chalamet pulls an upset here)
S Actress: Saldana
S Actor: Culkin
A Screenplay: Conclave
O Screenplay: A Real Pain
Cinematography: The Brutalist
Costume: Wicked
Editing: The Brutalist
Makeup: The Substance
Production: Wicked
Best Score: The Brutalist
Song: El Mal
Sound: Dune II
Visual Effects: Dune II
Animated Feature: The Wild Robot (wouldn't be shocked if Flow got it though)
Doc: No Other Land
International: I'm Still Here
Animated Short: Beautiful Men
Doc Short: I Am Ready, Warden
Live Short: The Man Who Could Not Remain Silent